> Here’s a glimpse of what you would learn….

In this episode of the Ecomm Breakthrough podcast, host Josh Hadley sits down with Lyden Smithers, president and co-founder of Titan Network, to discuss how Amazon sellers can scale from seven to eight figures by mastering supplier relationships. Lyden shares strategies for negotiating favorable payment terms with Chinese manufacturers, emphasizing the cultural importance of face-to-face meetings and the concept of guanxi. He explains how leveraging order volume growth creates win-win partnerships, how to handle common supplier objections, and how granular supply chain management drives profitability, even amid tariffs and rising costs.

Timestamps:

00:00:00 Negotiation Culture in China
Lyden discusses negotiation as a cultural norm in China and encourages not being afraid to ask for better terms.

00:00:25 Podcast Introduction & Guest Background
Host introduces the podcast, Lyden Smithers, and the focus on supplier relationships and payment terms.

00:02:33 Unlocking Growth Through Payment Terms
Lyden shares his journey negotiating payment terms, emphasizing cash flow’s role in scaling e-commerce brands.

00:03:47 Cash Flow Constraints & Supplier Relationships
Discussion on how cash flow limits growth and the importance of leveraging supplier partnerships for better terms.

00:05:08 How to Approach Payment Term Negotiations
Lyden explains the importance of positioning negotiations as win-win and painting a long-term partnership vision.

00:06:03 Building Trust and Presenting Value
Advice on showcasing growth, expertise, and reliability to suppliers to secure better terms.

00:06:48 Partnerships vs. Transactions
Lyden illustrates the difference between transactional relationships and true partnerships with suppliers.

00:08:08 Negotiating with New Manufacturers
Guidance on starting negotiations with new suppliers and the importance of face-to-face interactions.

00:08:36 Face-to-Face Negotiation & Guangxi
Explains the concept of Guangxi (relationship) and how in-person meetings unlock better terms.

00:10:01 Alternatives to In-Person Negotiation
Discusses insurance and financing options for payment terms, but stresses the value of direct negotiation.

00:12:07 Preparing for Supplier Meetings
Tips on creating effective presentations and understanding your cash flow before negotiating.

00:13:01 Structuring Your Pitch to Suppliers
How to present growth, market access, and order forecasts to make your offer compelling.

00:15:06 Handling Modest Growth Scenarios
Strategies for negotiating when you can’t promise large order increases, including leveraging competition.

00:17:05 Leverage and Good Cop/Bad Cop Tactics
Using competitor quotes and internal “bad cop” strategies to strengthen your negotiation position.

00:19:11 Common Supplier Objections
How to handle supplier pushback, especially regarding their own cash flow limitations.

00:20:39 Navigating Tariffs and Market Uncertainty
Impact of tariffs and market changes on supplier willingness to offer terms, and the importance of ongoing relationships.

00:22:16 Switching Suppliers for Better Terms
How to use established business volume as leverage when seeking new suppliers at trade fairs.

00:24:06 Realistic Payment Terms to Negotiate
Typical payment terms to aim for (e.g., 10% deposit, 90% at 90–120 days), and negotiation tactics.

00:26:42 Advanced Payment Term Strategies
Creative solutions like suppliers borrowing to fund orders, and adjusting deposits versus days for compromise.

00:29:00 Overcoming Language Barriers
Best practices for communicating with suppliers, including using translators and clear, simple presentations.

00:30:46 Managing Price Increases & Cost Optimization
Approaches to handling price hikes, currency fluctuations, and optimizing unit economics.

00:33:44 Granular Supply Chain Optimization
Detailed strategies for reducing costs across packaging, shipping, and storage to maximize profitability.

00:36:16 Negotiation Sequence: Terms Before Price
Advice to always negotiate payment terms before discussing price reductions for maximum leverage.

00:37:02 Immersing in Manufacturing & Continuous Improvement
Encouragement to understand the manufacturing process deeply and always ask “why” to uncover savings.

00:38:07 Actionable Takeaways Recap
Host summarizes three key actions: prioritize supplier relationships, negotiate terms before price, and show up in person.

00:41:00 Book, AI Tool, and Influencer Recommendations
Lyden shares his favorite book (Traction), AI tool (Alibaba’s Accio), and e-commerce influencer (Kevin King).

00:44:03 Contact Information & Closing
Lyden provides ways to connect, and the episode concludes with closing remarks.

Tools and Websites
“Alibaba“: “00:09:14”
“Canton Fair“: “00:09:14”
“SinoSure“: “00:10:01”
“Accio (Alibaba’s AI tool)”: “00:42:09″Books
“The Myth by Michael E. Gerber“: “00:01:04”
“Traction by Gino Wickman“: “00:41:00″People Mentioned
“Ezra Firestone“: “00:01:04”
“Kevin King“: “00:01:04”, “00:43:06”
“Scott Deetz“: “00:02:51″Key Concepts
“Guangxi (关系)”: “00:08:36”
“Cash Flow Management”: “00:31:11”
“Negotiation Tactics”: “00:12:07”

This episode is brought to you by eComm Breakthrough Consulting where I help seven-figure e-commerce owners grow to eight figures.

I started my business in 2015 and grew it to an eight-figure brand in seven years.

I made mistakes along the way that made the path to eight figures longer. At times I doubted whether our business could even survive and become a real brand. I wish I would have had a guide to help me grow faster and avoid the stumbling blocks.

If you’ve hit a plateau and want to know the next steps to take your business to the next level, then email me at josh@ecommbreakthrough.com and in your subject line say “strategy audit” for the chance to win a $10,000 comprehensive business strategy audit at no cost!

Transcript:

Lyden Smithers 00:00:00  I always say in China the the national sport is negotiation as well. In fact, if you go in and meet the boss of your factory and you don’t try and get the price down or you don’t get better payment terms, they sort of they they look a bit disappointed. so anybody who’s scared to ask don’t be in China. It’s the culture. Like they want to do it. It’s a game to them. And I suppose that’s why I like it so much. Because I’m all about the negotiation.MC 00:00:25  Welcome to the Ecomm Breakthrough podcast. Are you ready to unlock the full potential and growth in your business? You’ve already crossed seven figures in sales, but the challenge is knowing how to take your business to the next level.

Josh Hadley 00:00:39  Most Amazon sellers and e-commerce brand owners think that scaling to eight figures is about better ads or better products. But what if the real unlock is your payment terms and your relationship with your supplier? Welcome to the Ecomm Breakthrough podcast. I’m your host, Josh Hadley. I scaled my own brand from 0 to 8 figures in sales, and now my mission is to take it to over nine figures on my journey to nine figures, I bring you the unfiltered conversations with the smartest minds in e-commerce.

Josh Hadley 00:01:04  Past guests include Ezra Firestone, Kevin King, and Michael E Gerber, author of The Myth. Today, I am super excited to introduce you all to Lyden Smithers. Lyden is the president and co-founder of Titan Network, one of the most exclusive communities for high level Amazon sellers in the world. Lyden isn’t just teaching e-commerce. He’s actively building and scaling brands at the same time and sourcing at the highest level from China and helping sellers bridge the gap from 7 to 8 figures and beyond. Lyden also leads the China magic trip and, to be honest with you, is one of the best like masterminds when it comes to sourcing and being able to create relationships with your manufacturers overseas. With that introduction, welcome to the show, lyden.

Lyden Smithers 00:01:45  Hi. How are you doing, Josh? Good to be here. And thank you for the wonderful introduction there.

Josh Hadley 00:01:48  Well, I’m honored to have you here on the show because I know for me, many of the strategies that I’ve implemented, even with my own suppliers and definitely the way that we structure our relationships with our suppliers has really stemmed from you.

Josh Hadley 00:02:01  And it was like watching one of your presentations Once Upon a Time, in one of the Titan calls like unlocked, a new level of like, this is actually what this the secret is that sits behind some of the most successful e-commerce brands. And I still think, like you’ve talked about this, you’ve been on stages and you’ve talked about this, but I think it goes way over people’s heads. And like literally that relationship with your supplier and your payment terms, that’s the silver bullet to e-commerce. You do it right. Magic starts to happen. So light. And tell me a little bit more about that.

Lyden Smithers 00:02:33  Yeah. So yeah, you’re referencing a presentation I did a few years ago on how to unlock better payment terms with suppliers. So I suppose when I first started out, I think 2015, so 11 years ago now, we didn’t have the money to buy the inventory, and it was hard to get hold of capital when you were just starting out. And I just said to Dan, I’m like, look, I’m gonna just ask everyone to pay it later.

Lyden Smithers 00:02:51  And a few people that we knew in the Amazon space, like they’re never going to do that. They’re never going to let you pay later. They’re halfway across the world. They don’t trust you. And I thought, do you know what? I think I can get this done? Yeah. I spoke to Scott Deetz, who’s become a bit of a mentor and developed a sort of a process on tapped into his knowledge a little bit and then took that and went to China, came back with 90 day, 120 day payment terms, which just unlocked our ability to launch product after product and just scale exponentially. So it’s been huge to unlock that cash flow. A lot of people focus on the profit, which in this day and age with tariffs and and oil increases. We know what’s coming on and maybe we’ll chat about that later. We do need to protect our profits and that is that is one. But trying to save 2% on profit versus launching five new products without external investment, depending on where you’re at with your business, obviously cash flow is absolutely key to to that scale.

Lyden Smithers 00:03:35  And something that gets overlooked when you’re when you’re starting a physical product brand is the amount of capital you’re holding in stock. It’s either in China on the water or sat in Amazon. It’s very rarely that your money is actually sat in your own bank account, right?

Josh Hadley 00:03:47  Yeah. No 100%. That truly is the constraint for a lot of like seven figure brands and arguably even like low eight figure brands that the working capital and your cash flow, that cash conversion cycle truly is the constraint. And I love that what you did was like when your back was up against the wall and you’re like, hey, we don’t have enough money to go find another Po. It was like, how do we leverage and work with our our manufacturer to create a better partnership with them? And you’re right, you have since been able to launch product after product after product because what you’ve done is like you flip the cash conversion cycle on its head, which means you get paid from Amazon even before you’ve even paid for that inventory.

Josh Hadley 00:04:28  And that’s where the magic sits. For those brands that truly want to scale beyond the eight figure mark. So lyden, I think like everybody has maybe heard that or they’re like, yeah, that’s cute. But I’ve already reached out to my supplier and they said, no, you you’re it’s 30 down 72 at shipping. That’s we don’t do this. Who are you I don’t care what your projections are. We’ve heard that time and time again, but sounds like you have different experience where you’ve actually been able to work with many brand owners to improve payment terms overall. So maybe for our audience today, maybe walk us through what does that look like? What does step one look like? How easy is it to get these payment terms and like what’s the process you walk through.

Lyden Smithers 00:05:08  Yeah, absolutely. And it’s all about positioning. So what a lot of people do and we have like a selfish mindset. We’re in power. We’ve got these suppliers over in China or Alibaba or Canton Fair or wherever we see them.

Lyden Smithers 00:05:18  It’s like, well I can choose whoever I want. What we really need to be doing is looking for a win win situation. You saying can I pay later is not a win win. They’re like, well, why would I do that? Whereas if you say if I give you if I treble my order with you this year and give you 1.5 million instead of $500,000, can I have better payment terms? That’s when it becomes a win win. And and we’re able to to get those terms. So yeah, it’s all about painting the long term picture of the relationship and the long term partnership. Our suppliers, whether in China or somewhere else, China is my favorite place. I don’t think anywhere in the world has the infrastructure to produce the quality volume prices that we, we, we look for in the e-commerce space. but this applies to anywhere we really need to be painting the long term picture. People want to work with people for a long time. They don’t want a thousand clients buying 50 units.

Lyden Smithers 00:06:03  They’d rather one good client buying by millions of units. Right? So building that relationship and talking about the growth trajectory and also talking about what you’ve managed to achieve previously. Well, look how fast I’ve grown. You can trust that I’ve got the marketing experience you can trust. I’m an Amazon expert. You can trust that a TikTok expert or whatever it might be. I’ve got access to this audience, selling yourself to them and getting their belief in your ability to sell this product. Then they’re likely to give it to you because they know you’re going to sell or sell it and not sit on it and not be able to pay them. So it’s all about creating a win win situation, and I see it so many times, whether it’s payment terms or whether it’s whether it’s hammering down on price and haggling over prices, this is not a this is not buying a used car. We’re not going in there dangling a bag of cash, going, I’ve only got 10,000. This is what I want. I want this price.

Lyden Smithers 00:06:48  We need to sit with our supplier. Figure out what is the problem. The problem is the product is too expensive. So how do we reduce quality material without reducing the quality of the end product? How do we buy in bulk with raw material? How do we get raw material from somewhere else? How do we work together to change the process? Invest in a machine or a mold that’s going to bring the price down on the product and work together? This isn’t us against them. We’re on the same team and that’s where the partnership comes from. And yeah, even if and something else with the with the payment terms is that even if you have money. Right. Which when I started we didn’t and it was the reason why we wanted to free up the cash flow. Even if you’ve got the money or you’ve got access to capital or rich uncle or whatever, if you don’t have the payment terms, then this is simply a transaction. It’s not a partnership. For example, I had someone come to China magic and they’d ordered 70,000 units of a plastic product they’d been ordering from the supplier for a long time.

Lyden Smithers 00:07:39  When it landed this particular Po, it was all paid up 30%, 70%. Before shipping. It all started to break now. Then we had to go into a negotiation to try and get them to cover some of the costs with us and bear the burden together. How much more motivated do you think they would have been if we hadn’t paid for the product yet? So it isn’t just about cashflow, it’s about partnerships. Like you’ve mentioned a couple of times and building that partnership, bearing the risk together. Win win as I’ve mentioned, but lose lose as well. So it’s really about creating that partnership rather than a transaction.

Josh Hadley 00:08:08  So Leydon are you able to start with like pretty good payment terms like right out of the gate or do you almost have to start like when you, I guess, partner with a new manufacturer? How important are you? How important is it for you to like negotiate payment terms upfront? And are you able to because they’re probably like, dude, I don’t know who you are.

Josh Hadley 00:08:27  Like, I don’t know if I can trust you or not. So walk me through like it’s a new manufacturer, new relationship. What’s kind of your SOP or playbook when you’re building those relationships?

Lyden Smithers 00:08:36  Yeah, absolutely. If you’re going to go on Alibaba and ask for payment terms over email or message, you’re not going to get them on the first order. You might be able to develop that over time. Order two, three, four, whatever it might be. But I think the I think the important thing is in China. Guangxi comes into play and I’ve butchered the pronunciation of that. But it’s the it’s the Mandarin word for relationship, right? And only comes from face to face interaction, networking, reciprocal support and helping each other out and essentially friendship. Right. So going there in person and going to Canton Fair, for example, like we do with China magic and we’re about to go into the 13th iteration of that taking, taking people asking the right questions that send the signal to them that you’re a serious buyer, presenting yourself as a catch.

Lyden Smithers 00:09:14  Right? A little bit like dating, like presenting yourself like you. They want to work with you because you’re not walking and going, how much is that? What’s the lowest possible mark? Can you make it cheaper? And out you go. You’re asking questions about and presenting yourself as a good partner for the future. And someday we want to partner with we absolutely on China magic. We get 60 day, 90 day payment terms on the first order, but it’s all about the way that we presented ourselves and that face to face interaction. And then going, having dinner, having lunch, touring the factory and talking about the future together and really presenting that long term picture of a long and prosperous relationship. So absolutely, we get it on the on the first order. But it’s all about the way that you present it. And face to face interaction is key to doing that.

Josh Hadley 00:09:54  So is there ever a scenario? Do you ever see any sellers where they’re able to get any payment terms without going there in person?

Lyden Smithers 00:10:01  Sometimes you can and there are there’s there’s insurances as they call it, or financing that.

Lyden Smithers 00:10:05  They call it Sino. Sure is one of them. For example. Perhaps they can unlock that for a 30 days on the first order. So if they have access and they work closely with an insurance company, see, know sure is is the biggest over there, then they might be able to do that. There’s a cost of capital there. And what I do you know, sure to extend our payment terms. But there is a cost there. It’s not a lot and it’s much, much cheaper than using imagery financing over in the US, for example. But I also like to try and avoid that. I’d rather pay the 1% per month or whatever it might be directly to the supplier rather than using the insurance, because once again, it brings back that shared risk and that and that partnership. And we’re in this together type thing. So yeah, the there are ways of doing it by leveraging capital. But at the end of the day, the end of the day, they are insured. Now they obviously have to keep up their end of the bargain.

Lyden Smithers 00:10:49  But I prefer to get in the room with a with a boss or the Lao band, as they would call it, and sit across the table from each other, drink some tea, or have a couple of beers and hash out the negotiation. I always say in China, the the, the national sport is negotiation as well. In fact, if you go in and meet the boss of your factory and you don’t try and get the price down or you don’t get better payment terms, they sort of they they look a bit disappointed. so anybody who’s scared to ask don’t be in China. It’s it’s the culture. Like they want to do it. It’s a game to them. And I suppose that’s why I like it so much. Because I’m all about the negotiation.

Josh Hadley 00:11:18  Fascinating. I love that they’re expecting it and they’re disappointed if you don’t bring it up. So I love that comment.

Lyden Smithers 00:11:24  I feel like they think less of you if, oh, this man doesn’t want to come here and negotiate with me, right? You let them down a bit.

Josh Hadley 00:11:30  Kind of business owner. Are you okay? Lightning? You talked about like creating a win win relationship right out of the gate with these manufacturers, whether it’s a new supplier or maybe it’s somebody that you’ve been working with for a while. Give me some. Let’s say I’m preparing to go to China next month, and I want to prepare myself to create a win win relationship with my manufacturer. But I don’t even know where to begin. So what are some, like, talking points if, like, are you recommending people put together like a presentation deck? Or does it need to be an Excel sheet? Like how robust of this? Like, am I modeling out like years worth of financial statements or like, tell me about like what that looks like when you do have these negotiations?

Lyden Smithers 00:12:07  Yeah I’m in I’m I’m in a fortunate situation. I have a team behind me and financial team and stuff can provide me cashflow forecasts and stuff like that. But I think understanding for payment terms, in particular, understanding your cash flow and what terms are actually going to unlock that exponential growth.

Lyden Smithers 00:12:21  It normally starts around 60 days because you’ve got 30 days on the water. So if we can get another 30 days of sales, that’s when it really gets the tipping point where, okay, cool, the cash is coming back in and there’s enough to continue to place deposits. So 60 days is sort of the minimum I try and look for. But understanding your cash flow will tell you exactly what you need there. But yeah, I always create a presentation in China. In China in particular, they love a tea, as they would call it. So PowerPoint. And bringing that up. One thing is don’t create 40 slides because I’ve actually had it where I’m going through, and I’ve gone too much into the story of the brand or something. And the guys got up, walked off and started making the tea and I’m like, okay, so I lost him here. I haven’t even got to the pitch yet and I’ve lost him. So keep it short, concise. It doesn’t have to be overly professional.

Lyden Smithers 00:13:01  You simply have to present why they should trust you. And typically that might look like I’ve grown this business by forex in the last two years, so I obviously know what I’m doing. It’s a good way to show growth for those who haven’t started out. If you can’t show growth, perhaps you’re a nurse who’s creating a line of products that serve nurses. I’m a nurse, so I understand what they want. This is the total addressable market. I have access to these influencers that are going to post for me. They love social media and TikTok and they see the trend. The trend of TikTok shops been in China long before over in the US. So showcasing your abilities and then going through. Here’s what I forecast. Here’s the products I want to launch that I want you to make. Here’s how I can increase orders if we’re able to to do something with payment terms today. And this is the order I want to give you, I want to give you $1 million in orders over the next 12 months.

Lyden Smithers 00:13:50  Always analyze it. You don’t have to go out 2 or 3 years like you mentioned before. Always analyze it. Provide that big number. Later on, we’ll break it down onto what those orders look like, whether it’s 3 or 4 times a year, depending on your supply chain strategy. But I want to give you $1 million. However, on the current terms, I can only afford to give you $300,000. So that’s a problem, right? So if you give me the payment terms, I can give you $1 million. It becomes an offer they can’t refuse. Right. And then just highlight some of the other things. The kicker, as I would call it, when they’re really what payment terms do you want? And they’re chomping at the bit to find out what. What my ask is. I tend to go also remember when we run out of stock and I was really annoying and I was calling you and I was asking you to hire more people, and I was asking you to get your people to work on the weekends, and you were cutting corners to speed up the production because we ran out of stock.

Lyden Smithers 00:14:36  If I have enough stock, that’s not going to happen. Plus, I missed out on a month worth of sales, which could have been $30,000 for you in sales. So you actually lost out dollar wise as well. It’s not just me being annoying when I’m out of stock. You also lost out, so if we can eliminate that plus treble your order, they’re going to look at it. And that’s typically the process I go through. Six slides eight slides. Why they should trust you. What the before and after is, as I would call it before, it’s 300,000. After $1 million. Let’s find a way of making this happen.

Josh Hadley 00:15:06  Yeah. I mean, very straightforward. It makes a lot of sense. Couple of questions, though. What happens if I’m not planning on tripling my orders with that supplier? What if I’m like, what if I’ve been. I’ve been working with this manufacturer for the last five years, and I’ve still been stuck on 30, 70 terms and it’s like, hey, we’ve already been ramping up in my year over year growth is maybe like 10 to 20% at this point.

Josh Hadley 00:15:29  Like, what do you do? How do you paint that picture where it’s not like you want 300 K or do you want $1 million? That one’s very self explainable. But like, what if it’s just like a modest growth increase or something like that?

Lyden Smithers 00:15:40  I would take the same approach. I mean, if we’re what we’re looking to do is grow our business, we’re all looking to do that. I think 20, 30% growth year on year in this game is flat. So we’re all looking to even if we’re going to go from 300,000 to 400,000. But I would always look for can I sell in another market. If if I had enough stock, if I didn’t have to worry about cash with this particular supplier. Could I go on TikTok shop? Could I go into Europe? Could I go into Canada? Like, what could I do with this particular product? And then what other products which again, touring the factory and understanding what the products they make. What other products do they have? Ask them what their engineers and their designers are working on.

Lyden Smithers 00:16:14  We forget that these guys have engineers and designers, right? What are they working on that we can put into that forecast to make it go up? So I’d be looking at that. Even so. But let’s just remove that. There’s nothing we can do. We don’t want to expand. And we’re going to go up 300,000 to 350. Right. Well, perhaps they’ll say it’s not worth the bother to give you the terms. Now that’s where I would use. And I always go to China during Canton Fair. And I always tell my suppliers that I’m visiting Canton Fair before I’m coming to see you in the factory, because they know that in whole 5.1 row L, I’m going to have access to 15 of their competitors. And that’s where I would use that type of leverage. And I would negotiate with those competitors, make sure we can hit the quality, see what pricing we can get, and say, look, I’m ordering $400,000 worth of inventory from my current supplier. I can move that to you if you give me payment terms.

Lyden Smithers 00:17:05  Right. The goal is not necessarily to move, but it’s to use the leverage and go, look, you know, for the last five years I’ve been talking about payment terms. Cash flow is going to help me. I found another supplier at Canton Fair. They will give me the 90 days that I’ve been asking for. Plus, they’re going to give me a 7% reduction in price. I don’t want to move factory, but at this point in time for me to be able to grow my business, you’re sort of forcing my hand a little bit. So that’s where I’d use a leverage rather than rather than this big picture of travelling order. If that’s actually not reality.

Josh Hadley 00:17:32  How well does that work? Like you see that that one works pretty well. Like which of those two options like produces the better result? Is it the threat of like moving to another manufacturer or is it like just increasing order volume.

Lyden Smithers 00:17:45  Increasing order volume, new products, same products, but more of it is absolutely the route I would 100% go down.

Lyden Smithers 00:17:50  I don’t like going into like I spoke to you before, this is like a partnership. I don’t want to go in with a threat, but I sort of do it as like look apologetically, look at this quote. It’s cheaper and they’re going to give me 90 day terms. I’m like, let’s I don’t want to do that, but you’re going to force me to do it. And something like good cop, bad cop is pretty good as well. You can say, look, you know, my business partner, he handles the finance. He’s going to force me to move unless I can get these payment terms with you. So I tend to use you can to retain that relationship and the partnership that you’ve built over the last five years. In your example, you can use that as leverage as it’s not me, but I’m going to like that my hands being forced here unless we can do something. So how do we work together to get this done?

Josh Hadley 00:18:30  Yeah. Love that bad cop, good cop strategy there.

Lyden Smithers 00:18:33  A lot of my students in China. Magic. And and my team. My team. Obviously, when we go to China, we work with hundreds of factories. They go to the factories and they’ll call me up and go, can we do this? And I go, no, and I’m the bad cop. Like, boss, there’s no man unless you do the 90 days. We can’t stay with you. And yeah, so I’m typically the bad cop. I like it when I get to be the good one, because it’s not very often.

Josh Hadley 00:18:50  So all the better. That’s why you want to work with light. And he can be the bad cop in your situation there.

Lyden Smithers 00:18:54  Absolutely. Yeah. Just give me a call on WeChat.

Josh Hadley 00:18:56  So Leyden, what else? What are the common like rejections or objections that you get from the suppliers? It’s like, okay, you created a good presentation. You have some talking points, whether it’s a threat of needing to move. Right. Or maybe it’s because you’re increasing your orders.

Josh Hadley 00:19:11  Great. That all landed. You did your presentation, but then they are like, no. Yeah, sorry. So like the common objections that you get and how do you get around them.

Lyden Smithers 00:19:20  The I mean, the most genuine and common common one that I’ve experienced over the last ten years of doing this is they don’t have the cash flow to support me. They simply don’t have the cash flow to support me. And that’s okay, because what we need to try and do is match where we’re at with our journey. Let’s say your example, you’ve been working with them for five years. They’ve supported you very well, but we’ve outgrown them. And if they’re unable to give us the terms, then maybe that threat isn’t a threat. Maybe that’s we’re going to have to move on. If I continue to give them a small order because I like them, then potentially we can do that. I would never burn a bridge. And in China it’s not it’s not as bitchy if you like, for want of a better word as it might be in Europe or the US or Australia, where, oh, he left for another factory.

Lyden Smithers 00:20:02  I’m not going to work with him again if I come back in two years and go, how’s business? What’s. Yeah, we’re growing really well, we can actually offer you the terms. Okay, well, I’ll come back to you or I’ve got an emergency order that these guys can’t do. Can I still work with you? There’s. There’s healthy competition, but it’s never malicious if you like. So as long as you don’t burn bridges when you leave, you can always come back to them. So there’s something to be said for looking after the people that got you to where you are. But at the same time, if you’ve outgrown them as a brand, perhaps you need to look elsewhere and go somewhere else. More recently and listen, I spent all of last year on every podcast and every stage and every webinar talking about tariffs. So I didn’t know if we wanted to talk about that today, but I’m going to mention it. But yeah, last year we had a lot of nervousness with the suppliers around tariffs.

Lyden Smithers 00:20:39  And quite rightly tariffs sort of came in brand owners that had paid a 30% deposit, 20% deposit or zero deposit sometimes have product ready to ship and they can’t afford to ship it because they won’t make a profit when it lands in the US. So who’s burdened with it? The Chinese supply is burdened with it. So we had a bit of nervousness around around the tariffs and oil increases in prices now will make them nervous to to want to give payment terms because they’re thinking they might send the stock and never get paid for it because the business might go out of business or they won’t have the money to pay them. So that’s a genuine feeling. But that’s when travelling to China 3 or 4 times a year like I do spending time with them and go look, another issue’s come up. It was Covid, then it was tariffs. Now there’s oil increases. This is what’s happening. I’m here. I can still afford to pay. I need to work. How do we work and make sure we’re more efficient, that we can maintain our profits? And it’s that relationship that will continue to get you through.

Lyden Smithers 00:21:27  But yeah, when you’re first meeting someone that might be that might be something to overcome when it comes to payment terms to to let them know that there isn’t going to be an issue with payment because you’ve got enough buffer and profit in your in your business to take fluctuation on shipping prices and stuff like that.

Josh Hadley 00:21:41  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Is there ever a scenario where, you know, maybe your supplier really isn’t budging or like they are, they’re like, hey, we literally can’t afford we don’t have the working capital that we would need to be able to offer payment terms. Is it at that point where you then leverage your current relationship to go to the Canton Fair, find a new manufacturer and say, hey, I’ve got 400 K and POS, but I can’t do this. Like I’m looking for a new supplier. But here’s my like hard stop. I need payment terms. So if you want to play ball like does that work well in terms of finding a new supplier when you already have like an existing established business and relationship with somebody else?

Lyden Smithers 00:22:16  Yeah, it works very well.

Lyden Smithers 00:22:17  Like typically the people they meet at the Canton Fair will say, we’re going to place a 25 grand order to, to to test this, right, or a $10,000 order. We want 500 units. They’re looking for an MOU. You walk in and say I’ve got 400 grand here. If you can give me the terms and you’re not going to get it. They’re on the floor, potentially. But you don’t just walk in with that. You go, here’s my brand. Look, I’ve got 5000 reviews on Amazon being established. No one’s touching us. We’re top of the page or with mid page, like we’re going, well, we did 400,000. Our current supply is great quality. I’d have to match the quality. I want to give you the opportunity to see if you can present a sample. That’s the same quality. I can move the molds over my only. My only thing is my standard payment terms of 10% and 90 days for 90 days, 90%. Like if you want the business, then we can do that.

Lyden Smithers 00:22:59  So it absolutely works for sure because you’re walking in with a huge order. You’re not walking in with, oh, I might test this. And in the future we might be able to do something like, this thing’s been pumping for five years, like if you want the order I actually had, this wasn’t my idea, and I wish it was, but I actually had somebody come to China. Magic, Eric. And on the back of his, he goes, I get everyone to print business cards up with the we chat on it and on the back of the business cards it said 10% deposit, 90% 90 days. And he went, well, it’s my standard terms like unless you do that, I can’t work with you. It’s on my business card. It must be official. And they’re like, oh, okay. And he went to 3 or 4 different ones until they said yes on a brand new order. And I’m like, that was genius. Obviously, he had to talk about the history of his brand and why he could be trusted.

Lyden Smithers 00:23:37  But again, using that leverage and I’m like, he goes, I just made it official by printing it on the back of my card. And I thought that was pretty funny. That was genius. And it worked.

Josh Hadley 00:23:44  It’s written down. It’s in stone. I can’t change it now.

Lyden Smithers 00:23:47  Yeah, exactly.

Josh Hadley 00:23:48  I love that. So, like, tell me about like, what are realistic payment terms that people should be like, negotiating for. Like what is like I mean obviously like net 360 would be amazing, but I don’t think that’s that’s happening with anybody. But like, what’s in the realm of possibility that that entrepreneurs should be shooting towards.

Lyden Smithers 00:24:06  Yeah, absolutely. So I typically ask for a 10% deposit and the balance on 120 days after shipping. Sometimes they they look disappointed, sometimes they laugh at me. But I always ask again. They love negotiating, so I always ask for more than what I need. If you’re just starting out and you knew her, 60 days is the tipping point, right? 30 days is helpful, but 60 days is where that actual unit or the actual batch of units has started to sell.

Lyden Smithers 00:24:30  To bring in cash. And that’s where it starts to make sense, because you’ve got 30 days on the water and you’ve started and you’ve sold for 30 days. So 60 days is the tipping point you want to land at, but ask for more because they’re not going to just give you out of the gate. So if you feel comfortable, ask 120 days, depending on how big your business is or how big the order is, but 120 days, 90 days is what I ask for. And the reason I ask for a 10% deposit. Because the most impactful thing is the balance, right? And zero deposit would be even better. But I ask for 10% because that what tends to happen is they go, no, it needs to be a 10% deposit and 30 days. I’m like, okay, why is that go. Well, raw material cost. Like, okay, cool. What if I push to 20%? So rather than move the days I like to move the deposit. So when they’re asking me to reduce the amount of days afterwards, I like to move the deposit up as a, as a negotiating tactic as a compromise.

Lyden Smithers 00:25:16  For now, I need the days, but I can push deposit up, cover the cost of raw material and stuff like that. So. So that’s that’s where I like to start 10% and 90 or 10% and 120.

Josh Hadley 00:25:25  Do you ever start with like, hey, net 120 just because like now you’re at like really big extremes or is that like two too brash to where it’s like, dude, we’re not even playing in the same game at this point. They don’t take you seriously.

Lyden Smithers 00:25:36  No, I have a lot of we don’t pay the deposit. We don’t pay a deposit. A lot of our a lot of our products. So that’s relationships that I’ve built up over years. We’ve become friends. I get I’ve been invited to their weddings. These are these are my friends. And there’s a serious level of trust. They’re out of the gate. You need a deposit because it’s costing them. They have to go and buy enough raw material. And if you’re let’s say you’re launching a silicon product, you might never get below a 30% deposit because they have to go out and buy that silicon.

Lyden Smithers 00:26:00  That’s expensive. It’s actually increased 20% recently because of the war and the oil shortage. So that might be expensive, but potentially something else that’s very cheap, raw material. but it’s it might be a fabric or something that’s quite cheap or they have on hand and it’s mainly labor. Then that’s something where a deposit could be lower. But yeah, we’ve got a lot of our suppliers and I have 180 day terms. We talked about 360. Not even I’ve got that. I’ve got 180 days, but I haven’t got any further. That’s my peeve so far.

Josh Hadley 00:26:26  I love it. 180 there you go. Try to beat Blinding Light and I love that. What other objections do you get as you’re trying to negotiate payment terms with people. So we talked about we don’t have the cash or the I guess the working capital to be able to extend that to you. Any other objections and any ways to get around those that you’ve seen?

Lyden Smithers 00:26:42  So one on the cash flow which has happened now, you can imagine this doesn’t happen without serious relationship and trust and partnership over time and spending time with them.

Lyden Smithers 00:26:51  But I have managed to get some of my suppliers, go to the bank in China and borrow the money to to fund the order. For me. Now, there’s a serious level of trust involved in that and and years of working together. But that is an option. And the reason being is capital in China might be 2 to 3% per year, whereas in the US it’s pushing 20% in some cases right for capital. So I’m happy to pay an increase of. I offered to pay like 1% per month, which is actually 12% per year, to give me six months if they go and borrow it. They’re making money off the money they’ve borrowed. They have to be willing to do it in their own name for you. But I’ve had that previously where I can access cheaper capital through them and through their connections with the bank. Now, if someone doesn’t have great cash flow themselves, it might be they don’t have great lending power either. So despite lending being a lot easier to access in China, you have to weigh that up as well.

Lyden Smithers 00:27:36  But going back to different reasons for not wanting to do it, it would typically, if they have the cash flow to do it, it might be that they’re a huge company and your order is so small, it’s hard for them to get it signed off with their boss because they’re doing billions a year and you’re asking for 60 days on 100 grand and it’s like it’s not important enough. But where I would double down on that is just double down on the future of the brand. And in China, there’s a big if you did that with huge, a huge like supplement company or a big company in the US, and they work with huge brands like let’s say we’re building a shampoo and they’re working with L’Oreal and stuff like that. Your skin payments aren’t just because they know. They might even tell you not to come back to them until until you’re doing $200,000 order, right. In China, it’s a very different culture. If they, like you, believe in you, they’re willing to take a chance on you.

Lyden Smithers 00:28:20  They’re willing to invest in you for the future growth. And they look for that future growth, which is a completely different culture to anywhere else in the world or in the Western world, I should say. So I think that that’s one that’s one thing. And then it comes down to your your story and their belief in your in your ability. So as long as you present yourself well and the future of the brands, then you’ve got you’re able to do it. You’re able to get payment terms. I’ve never really had anybody say they don’t want to give me payment terms. I’ve had them say I can’t because our own cash flow. But that’s when you start bringing out the additional favors of, well, your capital is cheap. What if I pay you an increase per unit? It’s something I tried to hold back on, but if I pay more per unit, can I get better terms? And that’s something that we offer as well.

Josh Hadley 00:29:00  Enlighten. How are you having these conversations with them? Like in person? Are you just speaking English? Do you have a translator with you? What’s the best way to go about that? Because I know any of my interactions.

Josh Hadley 00:29:09  It’s like it’s very broken English. So the story I’m telling, it’s like, I don’t know how well this is being delivered when I’m articulating things in English. tell me a little bit more about, like, how do you bridge that gap?

Lyden Smithers 00:29:21  Yeah, always in person. And I have a team on the ground in China. So if I know that they don’t have somebody English, English speaking at the factory, I’ll take one of my staff with me. But typically I’ll go by myself. And then they. It’s like, I think it’s less imposing. Right. You turn up with 2 or 3 people, it’s like whatever. So I tend to go by myself and then use one of their their team. They normally have somebody, a sales rep, or perhaps my sales rep that speaks good enough English to get my point across. So I always ask, and it’s not rude to ask these things either. Just ask outright what’s the level of English like? Do you have someone who can translate? Because I want to go through some stuff on the other side.

Lyden Smithers 00:29:52  I don’t put a big the coming back to the presentation. I don’t put loads of text on the presentation. Three bullet points. Thank you for having me. It’s been it’s been great. Next slide. Big number $1 million. Do you want that Like, here’s how I worked it out. But this is this is the big number. So there’s no loss. There’s no loss in translation with a dollar sign and a number next to it. So any of those things three x like we’ve grown three x is very easy to understand. You can talk over the top of it obviously. And the more they understand the better it is. But showcasing in numbers we’ve grown by this much. This is how much money I want to give you. These are the terms I want. So very plain English or plain numbers I should say that can’t be misconstrued. That. Yeah, that’s the that’s the way. That’s why I would do it.

Josh Hadley 00:30:35  Fantastic advice. Now Leydon. Let’s say in the scenarios we’re in today, like let’s talk a little bit more about like tariffs and raw material prices needing to go up with the oil and things like that.

Josh Hadley 00:30:46  How do you handle a manufacturer that’s like, hey, I gotta raise your prices or they’re refusing to lower their prices. There’s also like the currency conversion where sometimes their currency is devaluing. And so like that US dollar becomes like that much more valuable to them. And if you’re paying them in that but they haven’t adjusted their prices accordingly. How much time do you spend in like kind of optimizing those like little unit economic costs at the same time?

Lyden Smithers 00:31:11  Always I sort of I count every penny. I think everybody you need to be managing your business off your PNL. If you don’t know your numbers, you can’t improve them. And you can’t make the right decisions for the business unless you know your numbers at a brand level and a company level, a brand level, and then a product level, you have to understand your numbers. If we start with currency, for example, that always fluctuates. Now, if it fluctuates a bit, I’m not the first one to jump in and go. There’s been a change.

Lyden Smithers 00:31:31  I want you to reduce your price because I’m like, it could go back the other way. So I tend to keep an eye on FX. If it goes extreme, I’m go look, can we drop that down? And sometimes if it’s drop ten points I’m like, listen, let’s lower the price five points. Let’s share that together. Like you’re winning here. So why don’t we win together. So coming back to that win win situation and the partnership feel of it, we tend to try and do that. Same with the the raw materials. They do go up over time. But what happens a lot of the time and is happening right now right. Is raw materials gone up 20%. So yours has gone up 20%. My first question is but you have my raw material in the factory already, so that stock isn’t going up to 20% for starters. Also, this is a partnership. On the next order, if it’s up 20%, let’s go 10% each. Win together, lose together. Let’s share the burden together.

Lyden Smithers 00:32:15  And that relationship piece will will help there. I’ll just put together a presentation talking a little bit about the current affairs with the with the oil. What I’ve done is on our biggest products that involve oil, which is silicone and polyester. I’ve locked in enough raw material for the whole year at the current pricing. Now, obviously that’s that’s not a that’s not a knee jerk reaction. That’s being proactive in understanding that oil was going to affect that. And I’ve managed to make sure I’ve got enough raw material, and I’ve asked them to order it, and if they need any extra money, I can give them extra money. I’ll pay some money towards the raw material. But the relationship I have, my suppliers, one of them came back and said, don’t worry, I’ve already done it. I’m like, okay, great, thank you. Like, I don’t even have to ask them. And they’re already planning ahead for me because we have that level of understanding and partnership that we’re already thinking the same way.

Lyden Smithers 00:32:57  So yeah, planning ahead and, and and for seeing issues like that can can go ahead. Shipping increasing for one thing is not much we can do. The price is going to be a price at the time. Currently it’s gone up about $2,000 per container from China to the West Coast. It might go up a little bit more depending on what happens with the war and the and the Strait of Hormuz, but we’ll just have to see what happens with that. We’ve seen Covid shipping go up to 25 grand a container, so we’re not quite there yet. And we managed to get through that. So I think it’s all about planning ahead and coming back to my original point, understanding your piano at every single level in Titan, we have a tool that does this for us and breaks down everything with seeing one cm two cm3. Right. So number one, like how much are we paying for the product? How do we get that cost of that product down? One of my favorite tips is to separate the packaging.

Lyden Smithers 00:33:44  Can I source the packaging somewhere else? Your supply is going local and getting the local packaging guy to give him a dollar box. You might be able to get it for $0.50 somewhere else and put the two suppliers together. and then come in below that. Am I paying a lot in three in the US? Can I store my product on the ground in China for free with my supplier, I better check that it’s not a damp room where it’s been stored because it might ruin the product. So again, being there in person and going, yeah, it looks pretty good to me. Make sure it’s on pallets, not on the floor. That type of thing. Am I getting three shipping quotes on every single order? I’m making sure that I’m being more efficient. Am I just using DHL or one of the big guys to ship my product? There’s Chinese shipping companies that only work with Chinese companies. If you have a relationship with your supplier and he’s willing to pay your shipping for you, then you’re going to get a 30% reduction in your shipping costs.

Lyden Smithers 00:34:27  Understanding down to the very granular level on your PNL, how do I build up a build in as much profit as possible? Because trying to reduce 5% in PPC spend is going to kill your ranking on Amazon. Reducing 1% and then finding 4% in supply chain is going to be absolutely fine. And you’re going to replace the the need for the increase in tariff or whatever it might be. So in fact, last year with the tariffs, my team on the ground are going to China where it ended up. We’re actually more profitable with the tariff than we were without it because we got really granular on, on on our supply chain and breaking down every piece to, to be as profitable as possible and building that buffer.

Josh Hadley 00:35:03  Yeah. That’s incredible. And I think that’s where it comes into like the efficiency once you’ve built something and it’s running well, that’s where you begin to optimize. And like those, you know a one penny savings here or $0.05 over here starts to compound quickly, especially when you’re doing meaningful revenue.

Josh Hadley 00:35:19  So anybody that’s like an eight figure seller listening to this, there is probably hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting out there waiting for you to just take advantage of with ripple optimization, manufacturing unit cost optimization, and obviously even like you’re importing and tariffs and structuring all of that. So I think you hit the nail right on the head and you’ve got massive amounts of experience here. Is there anything else that you feel like our listeners need to know that you haven’t been able to talk about yet?

Lyden Smithers 00:35:46  We spoke a lot about obviously payment terms and yeah, another cost. Right. Get payment terms instead of paying for capital in the US. That’s actually a huge percentage. You can save there if they’re going to fund use your supplier to fund the growth rather than the bank. But I think if we talk about the product and I spoke about after the product, I spoke a little bit about packaging. But the product itself, right, when you’re going in and trying to negotiate, see what you can do. At the moment, I’ve locked in prices with raw material by ordering them for the year, but normally if you order more raw material, you get, you’ll you’ll get they’ll get a discount.

Lyden Smithers 00:36:16  So their economies of scale will be able to be passed on to you as well. And that’s typically what I try and do is always more impactful to a business to get better payment terms and then ask for the price reduction. If anybody’s on Alibaba or Canton, ask for Mcse. It’s $10. If you want a 10,000 units, what if I order 100,000 units or it’ll be $8. So when you analyze that and you lock in the payment terms based on that big figure afterwards, say, okay, cool, let’s let now let’s talk about price. What I would say is make sure that you lock in payment terms before you go off the price, because it’s very easy to to justify why you’re asking. For a while, I’ve just trebled my order. Of course it’s going to be cheaper, right? So that’s very easy to justify. If you hammer them down on price, you’ve already used all your leverage before you go to go to the payment terms. So always start with payment terms and then and then go to price and then go to China.

Lyden Smithers 00:37:02  Make sure that you go down the production line, try and make the product yourself if they’re willing to let you use the machines. I always, I always look to try and make it myself and understand it. Look for ways of improving the quality savings that might be made. It might be offcuts of steel. It might be offcuts of fabric that you might be able to use somewhere else or save money on, and just really immerse yourself in the manufacturing process and being able to break it down. For example, we were making some salt and pepper grinders out of stainless steel, and it was a very high grade stainless steel marine grade almost. I’m not taking this thing on a boat in the sea. This is sitting in the kitchen. It’s never going to rust, reducing the quality, which sounds like a no no, but reducing the quality of the steel doesn’t actually reduce the quality of the end product. So really understanding that and yeah, investing in a machine with a factory that automates something rather than manual labor for $2,000 to print logos, for example, just reduce its cost and just really understanding that.

Lyden Smithers 00:37:51  And the biggest thing in China is just ask why. When they say no payment terms, why not? When they say you can’t reduce the price, why not? Like get to the bottom of the reason why? Because you will be able to find a find a way around it and find another, another angle to reduce price or better payment terms.

Josh Hadley 00:38:07  Amazing light. And this has been a masterclass of supply chain negotiation supplier manufacturing relationship. So thank you for your time today. I love to leave the audience with three actionable takeaways from every episode. Light in here. The three actionable takeaways that I noted let me know if I’m missing something. Action item number one is I want. I want the listeners to understand the shift in mindset that needs to occur in order to unlock the massive amount of growth that is sitting in inside of their business, waiting to be tapped out. And this is that. It is all about the relationship that you have with your supplier. Above all else. That is the number one relationship that will truly make or break your business.

Josh Hadley 00:38:48  It will make your business if you can get really good favorable payment terms. They will help you save cost, just like you did with like the oil and being able to pre-purchase a bunch of raw material at lower costs, etc. maybe it’s loaning capital out to you at much lower rates of interest, but that one relationship is what all of your business success will stem from. So that’s actually item number one. Don’t just see your manufacturers like, oh, I got to go get the product. And it’s transactional. If that becomes a true relationships where you are their friend and you get invited to weddings, birthdays, etc., that’s where you know that you are winning. Action item number two is I love what you just said there, which is before you negotiate your payment costs for the actual cost of the unit. In the unit costs, negotiate for the payment terms first, because that way you can use all of your ammunition, so to speak, to actually get favorable payment terms. Then the unit economics will take care of themselves, especially if you’re going to be doubling, tripling your order volumes over time.

Josh Hadley 00:39:47  You’re going to have that leverage. but I think that was a little hidden gem in there that people needed to listen to. And then third, last but not least, it’s showing up in person. And I think a lot of people just want to just do this from, you know, hey, I’ve just messaging them on Alibaba or I’m going to send them an email. And what you’re saying is it truly is that relationship. So going there in China in person. And if you’re new to going to China, that’s why you work with somebody like lyden that runs China magic. That can be the bad cop for you, but also show you the ropes in China. Where to go the Canton Fair and give you a lot of this expertise. At the end of the day, it’s all about relationships. It’s knowing. It’s like when you invite a plumber over to your house, it might be a couple hundred bucks to go fix something, and it might have been a simple fix, but that plumber knew exactly where to tap on that toilet to fix it.

Josh Hadley 00:40:35  And that’s the exact same thing that happens over in the supply chain world. Work with experts that know exactly where to tap in the exact pain points to hit to unlock growth in your business. Lead in anything else you think I missed there?

Lyden Smithers 00:40:47  No, think that’s it. And you. You nailed it. This is. It’s not a transaction. Stop treating it like a transaction. It’s a partnership. That’s the key to unlocking all of that good stuff. We just spoke about it.

Josh Hadley 00:40:56  And final three questions. Number one, what’s been the most influential book that you’ve read and why?

Lyden Smithers 00:41:00  I will I will go with Traction by Gino Wickman. And the reason being is ten years ago when we had a bunch of VA’s doing random stuff, and the PBC manager who also did customer service, what it allowed me to do was break it down into the seats and create an organization that was much more efficient and got much better output, and created a nicer working experience for everybody involved. And just analyzing all the hats that you need to wear yourself.

Lyden Smithers 00:41:25  But what those hats are and where your hires might be. So from a mindset shift in terms of building a team to well over 100 like we have now, when we had 3 or 4 members of a team and it wasn’t running so smoothly, that was something that we really built. We built mantra around, around scale off of when it came to team. There’s also rocket fuel in that series and what the heck is EOS? But EOS is the entrepreneurial operating system, which we. We’ve developed a little bit now we’re bigger. But that was what I, I. Built to be able to have the team to deliver the growth that we, we’ve managed to achieve.

Josh Hadley 00:41:53  Excellent book recommendation. Question number two what’s your favorite AI tool and how have you been using it?

Lyden Smithers 00:41:58  So there’s so many there’s so much fun going on with all these tools. Claude’s Claude Barts obviously is one Claude Co well, it’s been really helpful. Now we’re talking about supply chain. So I’m gonna have to go to Accio which is Alibaba’s one.

Lyden Smithers 00:42:09  I actually did a video about that recently. If anyone reaches out to me, I’ll send you a video on how that works. Like most, most AI out there, it can get you 8,090% of the way there. But it’s really, really impactful in speeding up the product development process. It can come up with ideas, it can create visuals, and it can create a tech pack for you to fly to China and go. That’s what I’m looking at. Is it possible and being able to have that conversation so it can turn months into minutes when it comes to product development and design and reaching out, it can also match you with suppliers on Alibaba to get you some initial quotes and stuff as well. So axial AC io is is something I’ve been playing with and it seems to be getting better and better. So from a product development and sourcing perspective, I’ll have to go with that one.

Josh Hadley 00:42:50  Love it. I’m adding that one to my list.

Lyden Smithers 00:42:52  If you use Leiden, you can get it for $1 a month as well.

Lyden Smithers 00:42:55  I think it might be the first month or the first couple of months. You can get it for $1. So there you go.

Josh Hadley 00:42:59  There you go. Last question for you. Who is somebody you admire or respect the most in the e-comm space that other people should be following? And why.

Lyden Smithers 00:43:06  This one? This one’s a difficult one. There’s so many. There’s so many great minds out there. And even being at prosper recently with you, great chatting to a lot of great people there and seeing some, some great presentations. I’m going to go with a very obvious one, which is Mr. Kevin King. And I just I love him because I love how he’s able to he’s good at collating stuff, right? He’s good at collating the best lineup of speakers at his event coming up in Nashville. He’s good at collating and getting everybody together there, and he’s also good. We know him as the Hat King, right? So he’s good at getting all of the all of the all of the hacks together.

Lyden Smithers 00:43:35  Does some great stuff with podcasts and Norm and stuff as well. So I’d have to go with Kevin for, for giving us access and putting so many great speakers on a platform that gives us access to those, to those speakers and bringing them to the to the forefront. But seems to have his finger on the pulse. Doesn’t seem to sleep. Seems to know every piece of information and new development in the e-commerce world coming out. So I have to go with an obvious one. But yeah, Mr. Kevin King.

Josh Hadley 00:43:56  Great recommendation. Leyden. This has been great. If people want to reach out to you, follow you, learn more about you, where’s the best place to do so?

Lyden Smithers 00:44:03  Yeah, you can reach out to me if you Google my name. Leyden. Smithers. I have a pretty unique name. I tend to come up top there, but Instagram, Facebook on my website, you can. You can reach out. I’d love to hear from you guys what problems you’re having with your supply chain.

Lyden Smithers 00:44:15  And anywhere I can help you overcome those will be will be a lot of fun. I’ve made every mistake you could possibly make, so if I can stop you making some, then I’d be more than happy to do so.

Josh Hadley 00:44:22  Well, Leyden, thanks again for your time today and for joining us here.

Lyden Smithers 00:44:25  Thanks, Josh. It’s been a lot of fun.

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