In this episode of the Ecomm Breakthrough Podcast, host Josh Hadley, an ecommerce entrepreneur who has scaled his brand to eight figures, shares nine mental frameworks for hiring senior-level managers. Drawing from over a decade of experience, Josh covers key principles including trusting your gut, starting the hiring process early, looking for clear green flags, using contractor trial periods, ensuring culture fit, verifying a track record of success, staying genuinely excited about candidates, accepting minor imperfections, and learning from hiring mistakes. His goal is to help ecommerce entrepreneurs make smarter hiring decisions and avoid costly errors.

Bullet Points:

Timestamps:

00:00:00 Introduction to Hiring Frameworks
Josh Hadley introduces the nine mental frameworks he uses before extending a job offer for senior-level roles in his business.00:01:05 Framework 1: Gut Feeling
Trust your intuition and gut feeling about a candidate, as it’s often the most reliable indicator of a good hire.00:03:15 Framework 2: Start Hiring Early
Begin the hiring process as soon as possible to attract a large pool of applicants, aiming for 1000 per position.00:04:20 Framework 3: Don’t Succumb to Business Pressure
Avoid letting the immediate needs of the business force you into making a hasty or less-than-ideal hiring decision.00:06:18 Framework 4: Look for Green Flags
A-level talent consistently presents “green flags” in their case studies and interviews; a lack of them is a red flag.00:07:28 Framework 5: Use Contractors First
Hire new team members as contractors for 30-90 days to prove their fit before committing to a W-2 employee.00:09:26 Framework 6: The Three Checkboxes
Ensure candidates are a personality fit, align with core values, and have a proven pattern of success in their career.

00:12:33 Framework 7: Be Excited About the Hire
If you have to convince yourself to hire someone, it’s a warning sign. You should be genuinely excited about them.

00:13:33 Framework 8: Accept Imperfections
No candidate is perfect. Ask yourself if you would regret not hiring this person, despite their minor, non-deal-breaking flaws.

00:14:39 Framework 9: Get Experience Through Reps
Your ability to recognize and hire A-level talent will improve with practice, so don’t be afraid to make mistakes.

Links and Mentions:

Hiring Process

“Gut Feeling / Intuition”: “00:02:09”
“Hiring Process Timing”: “00:03:15”
“Case Study Evaluation”: “00:06:18”
“Contractor/Consultant Hiring”: “00:07:28”

Assessment Tools and Methods

“Culture Index“: “00:10:22”
“Core Values Assessment”: “00:11:15”
“Pattern of Success Evaluation”: “00:12:33”

Hiring Concepts

“Excitement for Hire”: “00:12:39”
“Flaws vs. Deal Breakers”: “00:13:33”
“Experience in Hiring”: “00:15:38”

Conclusion

“Conclusion”: “00:15:38”

Transcript:

Josh Hadley 00:00:00  Today, I’m going to share with you the nine different frameworks that I use before extending an offer to somebody that I’m about to hire in the business. Welcome to the Ecomm Breakthrough Podcast. I’m Josh Hadley. I’ve scaled my own ecommerce brand from 0 to 8 figures, and I’m actively building towards nine figures in sales. This podcast is where I document that journey and share the systems, the strategies, and the lessons learned in real time so that you can learn what actually matters and scale your own business. My name is Josh Hadley. First and foremost, I am a man of faith. I am a husband to a beautiful wife and the father of four children. I have been selling in the e-commerce space for over a decade, doing $20 million a year annually and selling multi-millionaire on Amazon, TikTok, shop and Shopify. I’m also the host of the number one business strategy podcast for ecommerce entrepreneurs, and that’s E-com breakthrough. Today, I’m ultimately just going to share with you something that’s on top of my mind as I’m looking to add some senior level managers and leaders into my business right now.

Josh Hadley 00:01:05  And to be honest with you, I’ve gone through like multiple different people that I’ve been considering extending some invitations and offers to come join the business. However, I’ve come back full circle and I’ve decided that none of them are the right fit. And so I want to walk you through the different frameworks that I use. There’s nine different ones to help me come to this realization that, hey, honestly, this is kind of the warning signals. These are not the right people for the business. And this comes after hiring people for the last decade. And because I’ve been hiring people for the last decade, like my pattern recognition has only gotten better and better over time. And in addition, I have more examples of what it looks like when somebody is not a great hire and what it looks like when somebody is an exceptional team member. So let’s go through framework number one. And this is going to be the gut feeling. This is that gut check. And most, like so many people say, well, what is your gut say? What does that even mean? Right.

Josh Hadley 00:02:09  What does that mean? I truly believe, like there we all have a soul inside of us, and there’s something about that spiritual energy inside of us that I think is leading and guiding us on a daily basis. We just don’t even know it like. But I think it does teach us things on a regular basis. And so it is that light and light is attracted to other light. And so I believe that when we make those gut decisions, it’s really our conscious, that soul that is speaking into us, whether this is the right fit or it’s not. And oftentimes this has been the number one indicator for me as to whether, like, somebody is going to be a great hire or not. Is that feeling that I get from the moment that I watch their case study that they put together for the business, and also the interview that I conducted What? That team member. If I’m getting that good, like, gut feeling, so to speak, those are very positive signs. But if I’m ever getting that feeling of, like, an uneasiness or like maybe that’s the warning signal.

Josh Hadley 00:03:15  So that’s framework number one is like right down the gut feeling, your intuition that comes to you almost immediately because your brain is going to be able to begin rationalizing almost anybody, and you can rationalize anybody into almost any different role, but don’t let your brain do that. And so often I’ve had that happen to me. Framework number two is start the hiring process as soon as you possibly can. And the reason why you want to start the hiring process as soon as you possibly can is because guess what? Finding the right person is going to take time. And so first off, I’m going to go through my framework. And before I ever extend an offer to somebody I’m going to ask myself, how many applicants have I even seen? How many people even applied to this job? My goal is that I’ve got 1000 applicants for every single one of my positions. And the reason why is because ultimately, I want to ensure that I’m hiring the top point 1% of talent that is out there. And so if I want to hire the 0.1% talent like that means I’ve got to get at least a thousand people applying for my position.

Josh Hadley 00:04:20  So that’s why a we want to start early. But this leads into the next point, which is this do not let the pressure of the business build up, so much so that it forces your hand to maybe make a less ideal decision than you would if there was no pressure in the business. So what does that mean? Well, I’ll go back. Six months ago, I was looking for like a chief of staff level role in the business, and I was getting pressure on myself because, like, it was me having to basically pick up the slack. And we had a team member that was exiting the business. And so more and more was coming back on my plate. And so ultimately what happened is I let the pressure and the noise of the business drive the hiring decision more than me being patient and waiting for the right person to arrive. So guess what? I rationalized somebody that was not the right fit. There were things that I did not love, but I thought I was going to be able to deal with.

Josh Hadley 00:05:22  But the resentment built extremely quickly. And that one thing that I was bothered with originally during the the case study that I saw then, you know, really was like on full display when they were actually hired inside of the business. And guess what? 30 days later, the right person came through the hiring funnel. So had I just been patient for another 30 days, I could have found the right person, but instead I set myself back almost three months. Then how to exit somebody from the team? That’s not a fun feeling to have to go through, and that’s not fun for them either. So it’s like, I would have saved so much hassle had I not listened to the pressure and noise being generated in the business. So that framework that I’m giving you here is like. Start early and do not allow the pressure and noise of the business to drive the decision. And maybe it’s maybe it’s a PPC manager position on Amazon. And you’ve been the one doing PPC this whole time. Well guess what.

Josh Hadley 00:06:18  What’s another three months to just wait for somebody? That is a heck yeah that you’re like, oh my goodness, this person is amazing. I cannot wait for them to start. The third framework that I use is that all of my A-level talent and all of my A level leaders that have entered the organization, I have, number one, loved their case study from the get go and on the interviews with them. I didn’t have any doubts in those interviews. I was like, yeah, makes sense, let’s go. Every single one of them had that pattern. And so guess what? That’s the exact pattern that you have to use if you ever have to rationalize, well, that wasn’t the best interview, but I think it’s good enough. There weren’t any red flags, but there also weren’t any green flags either. Well, if that’s the case, that is your red flag. If there are no green flags and it’s just a yellow flag the whole time. Like that’s not the go signal. And so more often than not, like I’ve had to do that myself because my brain is going to say like, oh, I really need to hire for this role.

Josh Hadley 00:07:28  And oh, I think I can make this person work. And more often than not, you’re going to end up living with regret and resentment if you hire somebody and you never got those green flags, and you have these expectations that are clear up here, but then they’re never able to measure up. So let’s go through my fourth framework. You want to ensure that this person is willing to come on first as a contractor to your business, or a consultant for the first 30 to 60 to 90 days. And the reason why is especially if you’re hiring in the US. If you are hiring in the US, you do not want to immediately. Like let’s say you’re located in Texas and you’re hiring somebody from New York. Great. Well, if you hire them as a W-2 right out of the gate, guess what you have to do. You have to register with the state of New York. You have to abide by all of their employment practices. You now have to begin paying unemployment taxes in New York.

Josh Hadley 00:08:26  And guess what? Unraveling all of that is, like, ridiculous. If you end up not moving forward with that hire, or you end up like letting go of them 30 days into the job. So I will never hire a W2 team member right out of the gate. They will all start as a consultant or contractor to begin with so that they can prove themselves. And the reason why is this within the first 30 to 60 to 90 days, I have been able to identify a level talent every single time. No doubt in my mind, especially by the time we hit day 90, I know with a high degree of certainty that that person’s a level talent. It’s not even that I need to convince myself. It’s you could just ask me and I’m like, oh yeah, they’re amazing, right? It rolls off the tongue. I don’t even have to think about it. You will know. And so that’s why it’s so critical. Like if you’re on the fence, by the way, and you’re like, well, maybe.

Josh Hadley 00:09:26  Well then guess what. That ain’t a level talent. You maybe have a B player and they’re not bad. But if you’re hiring for a senior level role and you need a level talent, then a B level talent is not the right fit. And so I would much rather be able to say, hey, let’s part ways, let’s release you back to the job market so that you can go do something else that you would succeed in next hiring. The other framework that I use is I want to make sure I’ve been able to check these three boxes. Number one, especially if I’m like on this like fence, so to speak. This is an area where it’s like if any of these boxes are left unchecked. I cannot move forward in hiring this person. It’s a hard stop. So number one is a personality fit. We use Culture Index to be able to measure people’s like personalities, the way they innately show up on the job. As you know, there are people that are more visionary. There are people that are more data oriented.

Josh Hadley 00:10:22  There are more people that are like very checklist SOP driven that love to be told, hey, can you go execute this for me? They can go do the thing and they just get better and better at it all, all day long. Right? Then there’s other people that are just really sociable that could go work a good room, right? They’re really good at sales, things like that. Well, they all have night. There’s 19 different archetypes in the culture index. So I’m going to want to ensure that the like the profile I’m looking for matches with the role that I need. Do I need more data or do I need more vision, or do I need more follow through and checklist and SOP execution? Okay, I want to know that so I can check that box and be like, yes, this fits exactly what I’m looking for. Number two is the core values of the team. Do they fit the core values? Because guess what? Values is not something that you can teach somebody.

Josh Hadley 00:11:15  Somebody either has integrity or they don’t have integrity. For us we have three core values in our business. It is extreme ownership, relentless innovation and integrity above all. And so when we go into our interviews, we’re asking them those questions, situational based questions to see, like do they have they actually displayed extreme ownership, relentless innovation in their life? And do they actually have integrity? And look, if if they’re not checking all of those boxes and we can confidently say like, yeah, they have displayed all of these core values, then like that box gets unchecked and I’m sorry, you might be the smartest PPC master that is out there for Amazon, but I’m not hiring you on my team. If you do not fit the core values of the business, it simply will not be a good fit for either of us. And then the third process that I go through, the third checkbox here is do they have a true pattern of success in their career, and do they actually have the technical skills to do well in this? So this goes back to the, you know, the interview where I want to find a pattern of success of them always being able to be either promoted or rise to the next level or get pulled to the next opportunity, rather than getting let go or having disagreements with managers and then changing jobs or things like that.

Josh Hadley 00:12:33  Okay. And then I also want to measure their case study to be like, oh, and they also have the chops. They actually know what’s going on here. I want to be able to check all three of these boxes from Personality fit culture alignment, which is the core values, and then do they have a pattern of success in their career? The next framework that I’m going to go through is that am I excited for this hire? Because if I’m not excited, if I’m like wishy washy, if I’m like, well, I’m apprehensive, but I do need to fill this role. Like hard stop. Like that’s your answer right there. And so often my brain has had to like, try to convince myself like, no, this is the right person. Like, you just need to fill this role. Even though, like, internally, I’m not excited. Every single one of the A level, players that I’ve brought into the team, I was excited about hiring. So if you’re having to convince yourself that’s your warning signal right there.

Josh Hadley 00:13:33  Next, one caution is that nobody is perfect. And so it’s not that you need to have every everything’s going to line up and everything’s going to be perfect because then you might be hiring for the next 12 months for a single role. But what you’re looking for and the ultimate question that I come back to is, yes, everybody’s going to have flaws, but don’t let your brain overanalyze things. So ask yourself this question what? I regret not hiring this person and giving them a shot. And so if I can go through their flaws and say, hey, although this may not be ideal, this person is so good. Although again, core values culture, that is a deal breaker by the way. So these flaws that I’m speaking of are more like, man, I wish they had a little bit more visionary or autonomous thinking in their personality profile. Or man, I wish they would have had a little bit more PPC background and experience on their resume, but they don’t. But it’s not ideal, but it’s definitely not a deal breaker.

Josh Hadley 00:14:39  Okay, so if that’s the case, I want to ask myself, would I regret not giving this person a shot? Like, man, they’re a pretty impressive individual. Like, I’ve loved the case study. I’ve loved their interviews. I would almost regret not hiring them. That’s where you need to be for the right hire. And last but not least, you are only going to get better at being able to recognize and hire and retain a level talent the more you do the thing. And so if you’re new to hiring or if this is a first hire you’re trying to make. Or maybe it’s your third, fourth or fourth or fifth, that’s okay. At the end of the day, you will make mistakes and that’s okay. You can always come back and you can pivot and you can adapt through these mistakes. But the most important thing that you need to do is go get the reps, because your ability to recognize a level talent is only going to get better and better and better. The more experience that you get, the more offers that you extend, the more people you bring into the business and you see what works and what doesn’t work.

Josh Hadley 00:15:38  So today, that’s what I want to distill, is my decade of hiring and firing people and seeing what works and what doesn’t work, though that’s the mental like frameworks that I use. When I get to a point where I’m ready to extend an offer. Those are all the checkpoints that I go through. I hope you found value today in this episode. If you did, make sure that you share it with somebody else. Another operator that needs to hear the same message. And until next time, we’ll see you later.