Josh Hadley 4:19

Well, well, thank you, Brian. And again, it’s a pleasure to have you on the podcast. And I know our listeners are going to be excited to hear from you. Because yeah, across 25 different 25,000 different brands, you’ve been able to look under the hood of numerous Amazon businesses to see what’s working, what’s not working, you’ve worked with huge multinational conglomerates, so to speak. And then you’ve also worked with small, you know, guys that just started like me on Amazon that we’re just kind of figuring things out as we go that bootstrap their business. Right. And so I would love for you to share some of those strategies with our audience that you see Working and, and how brands stay relevant today. But before we get into all of that, Brian, why don’t you give everybody just a little bit of background of like, how did you gain all of your experience to what led you ultimately to Canopy and what you’re doing now? And I think what ultimately led to the success you guys are experiencing?

Brian Johnson 5:19

Yeah, absolutely. So I spent a number of years in the corporate the fortune 500 world for various companies and there was always that strong pole of the entrepreneur pool, right. And I was always moonlighting always doing something on the weekend, I was never the case study of the, you know, the kid that would be selling candy, you know, in the, on the playground, you know, in school, I wasn’t, I wasn’t that bad. But I probably had something similar that I was trying to do. But I had finally jumped over out of corporate into entrepreneurship painfully at times, about 15 years now. So I jumped over into sourcing products locally, from from business going out of business going out of business auctions, and, and various liquidation sites and everything. And I was I spent about seven years on Amazon, I’m sorry, not on Amazon on eBay, sourcing and then reselling products. And then I started sourcing and reselling, for multiple brands, money counting equipment, like banking equipment, coin stores, and fraud detectors and cash counters and that kind of stuff. And in, in cash, probably one of my I think it was probably like my last year maybe I had a number of units, number of cash machines that I had in house. Most of the time I was just drop shipping, but in house, I had one that I had AMC, AMC Studios in New Mexico, call me up one day and said like, Hey, we’re shooting tomorrow we need we want a black money counter for for the show or shooting. So which one it’s like, you’ve never heard of it before. It’s it’s a new show called Breaking Bad. And I like I love Breaking Bad there. I think you’ve heard of us. Because this was literally this was the beginning of season two. And So lo and behold, is that they went ahead and they paid more for overnight FedEx shipping of this money counter equipment, so they could have it in I think it’s like season two, Episode 10 wasn’t like that, when they had like a black money counter, they shipped it back to them literally overnight, so that they could have I mean, that’s, that’s what’s called just in time sourcing right there. That that wrapped up on my last year before I got the call over to to Amazon. Within the next couple of years, I got pulled over and realized I was a fish out of water didn’t have a clue what I was doing. And I had jumped into at the same time as I think it was like Amazing Selling Machine to Okay, and they had sorted so pretty early on. Some friends of mine had been wood that I’d known in E commerce had pulled me over to Amazon said, Yeah, this is great. Am I going to like what you know, for Kindles and books? You know, I didn’t, I didn’t have a clue. But this was back in 2014. And so I had learned enough to source and bring to market, my own product was in kitchen tool. And I go to the Amazing Selling Machine to live events in Austin, Texas. And I’m sitting there in the audience, and there’s probably I don’t know, 500 to 1000. Now, I’ve got no idea how many people were actually there. But I’m sitting there in the audience and Jason’s lately fleeting and gets up on stage. And he was he’s dynamic in 2014. It was full on wild west on Amazon. Yes, it was. Yeah, he is he’s, you could just go in there. It’s like, like, like, you can go in any niche you want. And everybody’s got a broken listing, and they don’t have enough images. And it’s like garbage photography, and you can just easily just walk in there and do a better job. And he started showing examples of a few niches like here’s a few examples, you know, you could just easily you know, anybody in here can just walk in, he’s taken over that net niche. And of course, one of the screens he brought up was my direct competitor. A few months, I had 30 new competitors, a lot of creative people in that room. And so I really, you know, that’s when I started actually innovating. I think that was kind of the that was probably the first instance where I started innovating from within the Amazon space. And so I had added on something like a cleaning brush accessory and then went in six months. Everybody in that niche had that same cleaning brush. So I realized like okay, innovation is creativity and innovation in the Amazon space. You got to keep moving. You can’t just go like go I did it. I’m protected. Good to go. Doesn’t work that way. Somebody’s always going to come after you with it. So I had at the same time this was kind of the catalyst to what I’ve accomplished now. And that is I had a buddy of mine, who is does very well on, on Amazon. In fact, he told me this week that he, him and his wife are being they’ve got Amazon themselves, Amazon corporate is actually flying out to them in Arizona, in order to interview them for a success story of selling on Amazon, which is pretty cool, right? And of course, they’ve been on, you know, a number of things like, you know, today’s shows and that kind of stuff. But when I had first started consulting, I wish there was is, I knew five minutes more than than what they did as far as Marketing on Amazon, which was very little back back then. And the problem was that they had a beauty brand that had 800, SKUs, on Amazon, back in 2014 800, SKUs on Gab, right, you know, if you could just go out and run this channel, you know, like, like figuring out how to grow the sales on this, again, complete fish out of water, right. I had, I had to learn fast learn that I wanted to learn. It’s and I started making a dent in it. But I realized, like, you know, I can move faster if I could just do the advertising. So let me figure out the advertise. All right, cool. Where’s the training for advertise? Crickets? Nothing. Amazon didn’t even have anything. Okay. Well, there’s gotta be people talking about. Nobody’s talking about no groups. No, no. Community? Software, no. Training? No. Okay, fine. That’s what led me just out of my own personal knee. And I’m like, Okay, well, let me start out just to create a, let me just create a Facebook group. And I’ll invite some people on there, and we’ll get like, you know, 2030 of us in there. And we’ll mastermind together about advertising. That was the start of the Amazon PPC troubleshooting group that has like, cash on it was like, 22,000 people, I think, just in that group alone right now. Okay. And so it’s grown, you know, regardless of what I’ve done, but I was always the type of person that anytime somebody asked the question, if I knew the answer, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna apply? Well, it turns out that was a trap. Because people would start asking questions that I didn’t have the answer for. But I was determined. As the moderator of the group, I was determined to figure out what the answer was. So I went out and I figured out the answer I did spent my own money doing tests and everything until I figured out the answer. And the more answers that you provide, the more that they started relying on you for all the answers. And the more people come in, the more repetitive the bigger the questions come, the harder they come. But I always had a habit of like, okay, solve this, I’ll figure it out. I’ll get an answer, I’ll get the correct answer. So that that pave the way as far as the reputation, I guess, of being, I guess, kind of the Answer Guy when it came to Amazon advertising, because by then I was starting to do more research, and more testing than any than probably most any other seller was doing. And it just kept snowballing. Right? And it got to the point where, you know, because they’re always expecting you to have the answer, you can never not have the answer. And so that’s the trap. Right? So after a while, they said, Okay, well, I’m trying to manage 800 excuse for this beauty brand from my, from my friend on advertising. And it sucks, because I’m spending 1012 hours, you know, a week at least going through and trying to manage, you know, all the you know, the minimal ad reports that were available and trying to figure out what’s working and making changes. Let me create some software, just upload your report, and it spits out some new information says here’s what’s working, here’s what’s not. And that exploded, because there wasn’t anything else on the market, Salix who was coming online at the time, also. But we had probably we grew in the first couple years, or the first year, we had, I think a little over 6500 users who were using over hours. And it was just horrific. There’s a there’s a statement of business of like, if you’re not embarrassed by your first launch by your first version, then you got to mark it too late. So that was absolutely the case. It was it was embarrassing. It worked better than what Amazon offered. But it was still ugly by today’s standard. It was a joke. It was the equivalent of Well anyway, it is it was insignificant compared to what’s available today. That software that was what we came PPC scope, PPC scope ran until this past summer when I sold it off actually a little over a year ago and then they shut it down this summer. Just because it just wasn’t that wasn’t a good fit for their business model. But

it was interesting to have that run it was probably you know a good six year run with with that software during that time to kind of evolve to the next thing which ended up becoming what we call a sponsor products Academy, which is the course that we did three of immersions on. That’s when I met Brian Burt who would go on to become my partner and sponsor products Academy and then subsequently into canopy management of which he’s the CEO now, and he had hunted around and ask people, it’s like, okay, who knows what they’re talking about in PPC? Apparently, people kept pointing back to me. So he said, Okay, fine, I’ll just hire you for, you know, whatever my rate was at the time, which I think was like, $55, you know, for like, a half an hour.

Josh Hadley 15:32

So, so cheap. Very, yeah,

Brian Johnson 15:33

exactly. Very cheap. And, and he kind of laughed at the end, because I was, I was telling him everything that he needed more than he needed to know about his own advertising. And he realized, like, you got way too much stuff in your head, we need to turn this into something that you could monetize, you know, into a course. And so apparently, what was in my head was four weeks worth of training on average, as it turns out, and so yeah, we did, we did quite well, with with that, again, that was another Blue Ocean Software was blue ocean, where nobody, there wasn’t competition, the course was blue ocean. Nobody had, you know, any kind of major course out yet. And we definitely didn’t have a blue ocean when we finally decided four and a half years to go to launch the agency canopy management. But we felt like, Okay, we’ve already gone through, we’ve done everything else, you know, I’ve got the software got training, you know, we’ve got all the formula. And that’s when we launched a canopy management. And I think you had made a comment earlier that resonated well with me, and that, I’m not going to I’m not going to repeat it because I can’t, I’m not going to paraphrase it. But the idea that your first year is, and periodically throughout your career and whatever business you have, it can be a train wreck at times. And I have no idea to this day, how you stuck with us that first year, given how many problems we had that first year, just growing pains, and just trying to document all of our processes and get consistency down and all of our rules and strategies. And it was just it was kind of a nightmare the first year that we finally, you know, with after the first year after we went through this EEO coaching, right. That is what solved. That’s what helped us survive the first year, we really did not think I did not survive, neither one of us thought we were going to survive. Until we we went through the training with scharffen. And that absolutely turned us around, got us to focus in on what was going to create consistency for our clients and our processes. SOPs, you know, who knew. And it didn’t matter how smart that people were, I thought that I was in my own head as far as Strategy. If you can’t have somebody else execute on it, it’s useless. And so the training wasn’t enough, we had to have the processes. But once we got the processes down, and then we started bulletproofing, that process over time through experience, we finally got to the point where it’s like, okay, we can deliver consistent results across our clients. And you like you said earlier is it you’ve, you’ve seen as grown up from infancy, including the terrible twos to to what we’ve become today. Proud to say to you, I mean, I was glad that you stuck with us, you know, for so long.

Josh Hadley 18:31

Well, you helped take a large, you know, played off my shoulders, you know, because managing PPC was was a beast for me. And again, it was just my wife and I at the time and so, you know, it has been fun watching you you guys grow as as we went through that, but ultimately, I think I was one of the people in your earlier group right as you were talking about you had kind of built this community you had your training platform, I remember looking for like PPC related like training courses there at the time, this was probably back in like 2016 There was not a lot out there 2016 2017 And like yours was like the only one that I kept like getting pointed to and so similarly I remember this is going back to the time when the only way you could get the sponsored brand image at the top of the page was if you get got into vendor Central, right. And that was like your hack. And I was like this guy’s genius right and I think it was probably like maybe like six months after that when they started like rolling that out to you know, the third party sellers and stuff like that. But I remember that that’s where kind of I was like, Oh, this this guy is super smart. But you know your stuff when it comes to Amazon advertising and now you’ve gotten even more breadth of knowledge with optimization and turn all of that stuff so I would really love to dive in to Maybe some case studies. But ideally, knowing that our audience are, you know, seven figure sellers, or they’ve already established some success on Amazon. You’ve seen both small and huge brands, right? Some brands with like an unlimited budget come to you say just dominate everything for me. So one of the questions I want to ask you, Brian is like, what would be your recommendation and advice for, you know, a seven figure seller that wants to continue to grow to eight figures and beyond? What should they be doing now, as it relates to advertising, specifically, with Amazon just getting more and more competitive every day?

Brian Johnson 20:39

I used to always answer with advertising, because that was my subject matter, expertise, right. But then when I started getting really passionate about buyer behavior, and conversion rate optimization, and buyer psychology and differentiation, some of these kind of concepts, I realized that that was a much that was the prerequisite to advertising, even for brands that are already heavily advertising. So yeah, we don’t, you know, we don’t need to do all that kind of stuff, because we’re already selling. But you’re in an environment where the ad costs continue to go up continues to get more expensive, in order to maintain what you’re doing, you’re starting to see where your the relationship between your ad costs and your total sales is continuing to increase rather than decrease like you want it to. And you’re always fighting against competition that is continually adapting to continually pivoting, and they’re there, they’re either emulating me emulating you or they’re emulating somebody next to you. And because of that, the emulation model that is commonly taught among courses in the Amazon space, plus a lot of the tools to say, hey, here’s who’s who’s successful, just do what they do. And frankly, there’s a high portion of sellers that simply it’s like, yeah, this is a side business for me, or there’s a startup, I’m going to, I’m not going to reinvent the wheel and try to be creative, I’m just going to copy what works out there. And there might be some certain amount of laziness in there. But more than likely, they simply just don’t have the self confidence to say, Hey, I’m going to break out on my own and do something different, you know, boldly go where nobody else. But without a doubt, I can walk into any niche on Amazon, and immediately see what are the weaknesses, the gaps of the brands that are competing in that same space, and know how to exploit that, that sounds kind of like a bad, bad thing, but how to take advantage of their mistakes, and in in connecting with their target audience, and actually do put the things in place that are correct in order to speak to their target audience to get their attention, you know, catch the eye of the shopper to pull in their interest or things like the image and the title in order to pull them through the to the product listing in order to pull them away from a lot of that competition. Yeah. And then, of course, in the listing itself is to answer the key questions, that gets them to nod their head saying, Yes, I want that, I want that, I want that. Ultimately, they’re going to make a purchase decision that has the effect of sometimes dramatically, but certainly on a regular basis increases the conversion rate for the product, not only the visibility, the sessions, you know, the traffic going into a product, but also the conversion rate, that combination obviously creates a lot more sales. And the profitability allows you to either become profitable in your advertising or even more aggressive in your advertising, if you choose to do so. It is I would say that probably when you transition from being a seven figure seller seller up to an eight figure nine figure seller is when you’re starting to transition away from here is you know, basic campaign structure and basic like tactics when it comes to the product or seller, Central or vendor Central. When you move into the eight-figure, nine figure you start getting to the organizational challenges that you’re trying to solve. You’re trying to solve for logistical bottlenecks, your you know, staffing problems, you know, all the things that you know, that you and I have talked about as far as that scharffen teaches as far as like going to the next level, and each level becomes a ceiling that you’ve got to solve everything underneath it before you can break through to the next level. And most brands, they may have got a great product and a great, great catalog. But they have to solve a number of things as leaders and what their leadership team and how their whole, their whole team operates in order to get to the next level to break through. And so certainly for those who are still trying to maximize everything about their product and their Seller Central account and everything in our catalog. Always, always, always start with revisiting. Can you differentiate your buy? No, you can. But it’s kind of a rhetorical question. But can you differentiate your product from the rest of your competitors for that search? And give shoppers a reason to be curious or compelled to come through your product listing? Usually that’s benefit or Feature Driven? And then of course, ask the question, what’s in it for me multiple times on your product listing, so that they understand instantly, not for long, you know, reading a long, you know, TextBlock, or having making them figure it out, but just handed and handed it to them? What’s in it for me in order to, you know, buy if I buy this product, that is the by far the greatest impact that I have seen when it comes to sales and profitability in the Amazon space?

Josh Hadley 26:00

Very interesting. And I think that that that necessarily wasn’t going to be the answer I was expecting to hear. And I don’t think it’s the Strategy or tips that people are like, oh, I want the newest hack, right? And you’re like, Well, no, you got to be creative. And it’s kind of going back to the basics. But like you said, it is it is a prerequisite. What I would love to do, Brian is are there any case studies that come to your mind? Or maybe just some examples of like, let’s dive into that, like differentiation? Like, can you give us a few different niches? And just like, hypotheticals, even if we don’t have case studies to say, hey, like, this is how to approach, you know, differentiation, because I think that this is important too, as people establish their brands, and maybe as they look to get into new product categories, right, and extend their product line, you mentioned that you can look at different product niches, or, you know, categories on Amazon, you’re like, I already know which ones are the prime for picking, right? So can you kind of break that down for us to help kind of the audience, maybe glean some of the insights that you have to where you can pinpoint like, ooh, this one’s primed for disruption?

Brian Johnson 27:14

Well, I mean, honestly, every every niche within Amazon is primed for disruption. Unfortunately, I’ve gotten the I’ve built up the bad habit, as I look at most things in my life and look for, you know, what’s the one what’s in it for me, what’s the standout differentiation, I’m driving on the highway, looking at billboards with the same mentality that I am looking at the show on Amazon. And so it kind of gets, you know, a little obsessive, maybe. But ultimately, I am looking at from starting out with me, because ultimately, there’s going to be the, you know, what we call it as far as the differentiation, the conversion rate optimization side of the product listing, which most brands haven’t done in the last six months, they probably haven’t done it since they first launched the product, right, which shouldn’t be a huge. There’s still some people out there who who still believe if they change something in their title, that they’ll lose all their ranking and indexing and everything. It’s a very dated concern. But when it comes to world, so you’ve got the differentiation and conversion rate optimization of products. And then of course, then how do you get your traffic, whether that is advertising on Amazon, whether you’re driving tick tock traffic from outside of Amazon, whether you got, you know, social media sites that are pushing through micro affiliate, you know, micro influencers and these kinds of things, right, all of these things are valid, and they have their time and consideration. But ultimately, you’re on the platform that has a higher average conversion rate than any other channel available out there, including probably your own DSC site. And so it does carry fees that go along with that. But you if you lean harder into maximizing the conversion rate on Amazon, you’re going to learn a lot of things that you can use outside of Amazon as well, as well, in addition to when you first identify, hey, I’m going to bring in new product markets, how am I going to the first thought is not can we bring this to market, but how are we going to market this once we put it into market, because we have to be able to stand out from the competition. Some examples on this is, it could be as simple as if every if there’s a common pattern that occurs among the search results. Let’s say you take your your favorite search term or your one that converts the most for your product. And you look at search results to come back. There’s usually a couple of things that come up, come up first one is going to be are the products to Amazon chooses to bring back to the shopper for that search term. Are they all similar? Are they similar to your product? Second one, or is it a mix of other products? They just happen to use the same search term. So there’s a matter of relevance there. The second one is going to be are they going to bring back products that are a similar price point to you? If you’re coming in and you’ve got a to learn shorter dollar products, and everybody else has a $50 product. And Amazon’s primarily just showing the $20 and $50 products, and then you’re kind of this outlier trying to fit into with a $200 product, you’re either going to stand out very well, or you got to be just ignored, just out of sheer just like Miss as far as relevance as far as your target audience. So that’s something that I highly encourage brands to do is to take their top 20 search terms and actually search on Amazon, to see how would their product look among whatever comes back whenever Amazon thinks is relevant to that search term, that’ll tell you, where Amazon is trying to where they think is the buying target audience, they’re going to bring back the products, they think you’re gonna convert the best. The third thing is, the patterns, there’s always there going to be common patterns, this is what I was talking about as far as emulation. So an example on this is, like one of them that I that all while reference, again, and again, he is let’s take shoes, for instance, has come up a couple of pair. So in the case of shoes, it is very common for brands at every niche in order to create their main image. And it’s usually a single product, and it is just flat right there. In other words, there’s no there’s no depth, there’s no product and then then foot back, there’s another product kind of off in the distance, you know, maybe a little bokeh a little bit of border in the background, maybe there’s no color splash, it’s not there not at an angle, it’s not tilted up, it’s just flat sideways, right up in front, right, filling up as much white space as possible. There’s no character to that main image. If most of your competitors in the shoe results are using the same kind of main image, the same footprint, if you will, where the shoe, they’re all pointing to the left, they’re all pointing together, they’re flat, they’re turned completely sideways, 90 degrees to the viewer, they’re all pointing the same direction, white background is pretty easy for you to simply try to go the opposite went the opposite direction, tilt your shoe up have an angle have the second shoe off in the background at a distance. Just to create some depth in there. There’s there’s so many tricks I actually went so far because I am that level of geek is I’ve actually gone out and done 1000s of studies of buyer choices where I can think of a similar to the process like say pick foo might use in order to take an audience and say give them okay, here’s mha. Here’s MHB. Which one’s your favorite? Yeah, and accurate AB split test, but it does have some value, right? So same kind of thing that I did on other platforms is simply just, it was a little simpler than that it was more about the human eye and which which product did you notice first? And it was just like, you know, a whole series of images? Which product did you notice first? Which one did you notice second, why? And did that 1000s of times. And there was common patterns that we learned that did simply just draws the the human eye on a page like that result page first, second, third, first one was always motion. So that was never really a consideration in the Amazon space. Because of course, the only thing with motion would have been the sponsor brand video ad. And that’s below the fold. Now, now, you can get a video up in headline ads grab if you gotta grab it, do it, because that’s the first thing that people notice is motion. The second thing that grabs their attention is a bright, high contrast pop of color, bright red, blue, green, yellow, whatever, that seems to that kind of ColourPop when it is among a lack of that color. In other words, everybody’s got to read products yours being read, not going to be noticed. But if everybody’s black and you’ve got a black product, but you put a red apple in there, you’ve got a red box behind it or some kind of accent behind you know, some blue, you know accessory or something like that behind it that has creates an additional colour pop in the image. It just naturally draws the eye of the shopper. So that’s kind of the shoe example of how do we get more people to stop their scroll on their mobile phone right in order to stop for a split second to look at the image and therefore then look at the title. And then we use the title in order to book them over to the listing. The another one that is the grabs people’s eyes is clean versus clutter. Think of like kitchen. Think of like kitchen pots and pans, right? You got to set up like three frying pans and three pots and labels and lids and all that kind of stuff. Yep, is very common for brands to want to force value all the way up front on the main image by saying And oh, well, here’s our main product. But then we have these 12 assessories that go along with it, I’m going to cram all of that into my main image. And it’s all going to be just like just dense packed in there on an image. And look at all the value we’re giving you. And somebody has enough sales where they make, you know, credit success, and everybody else emulates that. Not a whole lot of originality. They’re so true.

Josh Hadley 35:23

So true. I’m going to piggyback off of that and continue. Because we saw that in one of the most recent, like product opportunities that we went into, we said, well, look at everything, all these people are like trying to provide, there’s like, we’re including 10,000 markers, plus, we’re including 10,000, stickers. And like all of a sudden like it what’s funny is like they somebody initially started doing that, and then everybody just started copying. And my wife and I, as we looked at that kind of opportunity, we’re like, holy smokes, like this is just overwhelming, then just filled with clutter. And so what we did is we actually took out like, sorry, you’re not getting 10,000 stickers, sorry, you’re not getting a bunch of markers, you’re getting one, right, and you’re getting one of each of these things, but it’s exactly what you need. And instead of just, like customer feeling overwhelmed, it’s like, oh, that’s, that is exactly what I want. And so it’s just very clean. And you see so many better results from that, because it’s a lot less pressure on the customers mind to have to think, wow, what am I looking at and trying to dissect like, what all is being included here. So anyways, I’ll let you go back to it. But like, just want to give that a second? Because though,

Brian Johnson 36:39

yeah, and part of it is, you know, back in the day, you know, I certainly remember back when, you know, they used to teach as far as like, I know, put it put an ebook on your listing to differentiate, you know, so you stand out? Of course, nobody cared about ebook, right? Yeah, there’s always this one, you know, extra value. And I think that kind of, you know, like, if you sell, you know, a kitchen tool, you know, have like a cleaning brush or a case or something like that, they stand for it. And I think that just continue to perpetuate more and more and more until people are going to say, Well, I gotta have everything on there to show value. But from a shopper, there’s two of those couple of rules that we typically have regarding conversion rate optimization, optimization, that is the introducing confusion, or introducing doubt, is going to slow down the buying process, the decision process of a shopper, and that’s going to slow down or even inhibit them buying the product. Because if they’re confused, they don’t buy if they have doubt they don’t buy, right. Yeah. And so that’s one of the reasons why well, you know, low hanging fruit of like, if you’ve got bad English misspellings throughout your listings, that slows down the buyer, slowing buyer is not going to purchase. If you have too many variations. We see this a lot in like, say a baby niche, for instance, you know, like, like baby bibs. And they’ve got different patterns and sayings and colors and sizes and quantity packages. And then everybody’s got a different design because they it’s like, oh, well, I don’t like those designs, I’m going to come up with my own. And then imagine the results of baby bibs on Amazon, you can do that search. And everybody is like, like, here’s all these different, here’s 15 different designs, and both sizes. And if you click in the listings, here’s 19 more variation child variations of those variations of those thing combinations. And you’re just so overwhelming the consumer, that they’re like they get into this paralysis by analysis where they can’t make a decision, because there’s too many options in front of them. So I love what you did there is like, like, instead of 10,000, we’re going to be like, what do you actually want? What do you actually need, right? It’s not to say that you can’t offer that value within the listing. But in a situation where every all your competition is pushing this cluttered main image, and just rows and rows of cluttered main images, be the one that has this massive amount of whitespace that sticks out, like a sore thumb, just as if you had a red background, a white background and a pop to a consumer who’s just overwhelmed with with, you know, too much information all around, yours is gonna stand out. And then maybe in your secondary images, you can say like, oh, and you know, we’re also gonna throw in these other things. Yeah. But you got to catch their attention first, before you can get them to appreciate the value within your listing later. Yeah, like that’s, those are a couple of good examples that I like to use, because it’s, there’s similar patterns like that, that occur, you know, throughout just in just in the main image that occur in every single niche where it’s easy to simply just do the opposite of what everybody else is doing and what most of your competitors are doing in order to grab the attention of the shopper first before everybody else. That’s the whole click Share metric from brand analytics.

Josh Hadley 39:58

Makes sense? Yeah. that that’s a lot of value that you just shared there. I’m also curious going back to the variation, question there, or point that you pointed out that sometimes too many variations is that analysis by paralysis, right? Then the customer just leaves, you might think you’re like, oh, look, I’ve got 20 different designs for you to choose from this point, right? It’s like, No, probably not. so magical. Number four, like, variations on a listing that you would recommend?

Brian Johnson 40:30

Well, it can’t simply just be a different flavor of the day, right? I think that you and your wife mastered this in its you, you came out with different actual different designs, yours came off a lot more custom, even though you had some, some patterns that you repeated in different ways. You didn’t simply just say, like, Oh, we’re gonna do a white and eggshell and light gray. And, you know, these kind of like, like subtle variations of things, it was more of, no, this is modern, this is rustic, this is I mean, substantially different options to choose from, generally, I would say is, don’t simply just add on variations thinking, you’re going to just multiply sales. Oh, if I’ve got a black one, then I’m going to add on a red, a blue, green or black, you know, white color, whatever, what are the most popular colors, and only do those, right and only do like the top three, it’d be better to bring in a new product that has something actually unique about it, than to simply just add on color variations, size variations, quantity variations, you can leverage those in different ways. Things like you know, gloves, shoes, clothes, whatever the case is size variations is very common, you would bundle those together underneath the same listing so that if somebody goes into Okay, okay, here’s the red shoe, I want Oh, and here’s all the different sizes, men’s and women’s, whatever that makes sense to keep together as a variation, right? But everything else, truly different designs, you should look for the earliest opportunity where it can stand on its own from a social proof standpoint, review count standpoint, in order to break it out to be a separate listing, because that’s when you get the advantage that’s actually vendor central accounts currently get. This is something relatively new but and that is the ability to have multiple product listings, multiple ads running in the same space, the same real estate, for the same search result. You can have multiple ones I use, I’m sure you’ve seen this, where you go into a niche, and somebody just has dominated the ad space and organic space with multiple products. The way they do that is there those are standalone products or separate parent products. Those are not child products, unless they are a vendor Central account, then they get that benefit now. But the variations, what we typically see on that is because of that paralysis by analysis, they don’t make the choice. You would think the logic is usually like well, I’ll have if I add in 10 more variations 10 more different styles flavors, then I’ll have 10 chances of getting the same customer. No, actually, you’ll simply just confuse them because all the rest of your competitors have confused them because of a lack of focus or lack of commitment to a decision. And what you end up with is single digit conversion rates, which is a death wish for any product line on Amazon. It’s not uncommon for us to see among clothing I’ve been using, like the baby clothes and baby bibs, baby onesies, all that kind of stuff that I have all these different flavors and styles and all that kind of stuff. It’s not uncommon for those to come in at like a three to 5% conversion rate, which is terrific. To have, right if you’re not up in the 20% Plus conversion rate is because you don’t know who your audience is.

Josh Hadley 43:59

Interesting. So let’s go into that. Then real briefly. Then Brian, like, how do you optimize for conversion rate? How do you get to that? 20%? Canada?

Brian Johnson 44:09

We’ve got what four hours? Okay, cool. Yeah. Here’s the here’s the short workshop. Now. So So the biggest thing, the easiest route, I should say, the easiest to implement, because I take it for granted because I do it all day. I do it with billboards for crying out loud. I mean, is to go in and look at what is it’s first and foremost. What is it? What’s the common pattern among what your competitors are selling? And how do you break apart from that? How do you do something different? A call a second thing on that is what is it about your product that is actually has a different benefit or a different feature than your competitors? This is where a lot of brands get hung up because they’re like look, we sourced the exact same product as most of my manufacturers from the same factory. Same, same materials, same color, same In everything, I’m just selling to, right. It’s a me too product. Or what I always want I always love is like, I was the first one here, everybody else copied me. Cool. You’re the innovator time to innovate. Again, I’m the pivot. Even in situations like this, the biggest, the easiest low hanging fruit is your competitors are failing to point out obvious features and benefits to the consumer in the product listings, simply because they know too much about their own product line, they know that everybody in the same niche has the same feature has the same benefit. And so they fail to point that out to a shopper, because they just assumed everybody already knows. I assure you, they don’t. And so even if you come in and you like, I’ve got a couple of questions that I always have brands take back to their manufacturer. And some of the responses I’ve heard have been been hilarious. But the two questions that I have them ask their manufacturer is, in the manufacturing process of my product, what is the most expensive step? And what is the most time consuming step and why for each of those, it’s not that you paid more, or asked to have extra time spent. It’s just and you just said I want this product. And then they just solved for you without even telling you at the manufacturing level that Oh, this one thing took longer, or this one thing was a more expensive ingredient or part or process. What you’ll find in that is they’ll explain something to like, oh, well, we have to it takes the most time consuming is that we have to put this plastic mold into this oven in order to bake in the color for an extended period of time. And so that takes the most Why do you do that? It’s like, oh, well, so doesn’t fade when it’s sitting out in the sun. Oh, nobody’s pointing out the fact that it resists Sun fading, you know, that it, you know, they can they can stand the weather, you know, it’s weather resistant. You know, even though everybody experiences the same benefit, because it was made by the same manufacturer, they all have the same benefit. Nobody else is playing out that to the consumer as Oh, guess. But here’s, here’s a feature, here’s a benefit. And when a consumer sees that you point this thing out. They don’t know that everybody’s got that. But they do see the you seem to be the only one that is pointing it out. And therefore you must be different, you must have something unique. This is often this is as simple as it tastes oftentimes for us too. Because like a canopy, we’re always like saying, like, we’re not in the business of like having you discount your product, we want you to increase the price of your product. And to him and more for your product. Because you got more exclusivity, you stand out from the competition, that the advertising works better together, right. And so this is a way that you can actually increase your price above. And I can hear the voices like oh, I’ve had competitors to sell my product for $8 stop competing against finance things that separate either understand better than them what the pain is that you’re solving for the consumer and put it in a language that a consumer understands in simplistic terms, replace things like Akron industry acronyms with a couple of words that actually explains what it does. What’s the benefit? One that I use on that as there’s an industry code for fire resistance called ul 94. And products that are fire resistant? They love to because it’s nice and short. It’s only four letters, they put it in their title ul 94. You all 94? First of all, nobody’s searching for you or maybe for second. Anyway, searching for a product buy. It has no clue what you want it for is, yeah, it’s time to put in fire resistance. All of a sudden, you’re like, Wow, this one’s fire resistant.

Josh Hadley 48:44

The other ones are these are all fire resistant. Yeah.

Brian Johnson 48:47

But you used language that they actually understood how politicians get elected.

Josh Hadley 48:52

Yeah. You know, Brian, I don’t want I want you to continue on that thought. I will. I’m gonna interject here because I think I don’t remember there’s there was a beer company. And you might know this, right? That what they changed in their marketing is that they said that their their beer was filtered. Right? I think that’s the correct thing, right? Where their beer is the exact same went through the exact same process as everybody else. Right? And that is the differentiating factor is like, they just went through that thought process of like, Alright, what’s the most expensive step? Or what’s the what takes the longest amount of time and they’re like, Oh, we spend a lot of time filtering. Let’s call out that our beer is filtered. And so at that time, nobody else was calling out that our beer was filtered, whether that was an important or called out, you know, and it differentiated them. And I think there’s a lot I mean, I’ve already had a big mindset shift with that like with some of my products that one thing that we can do is like there’s a lot of like hand tooling time that takes A lot of like hand craftsmanship for some of our products. And I was like, why don’t we say that this is actually handcrafted, like each one gets, you know, we can mark it that it be instead of just looking at the standard competition, and just looking at like, oh, what does everybody say about planners, right? Well, our planner has 1000 pages, mine has 1001 pages or things like that. That’s, that’s the basic stuff like what I love those questions that you talked about, and it can make such an impact. So I’ll let you continue going down that path. But I want the audience to know like, this is a huge mindset shift. And I don’t we haven’t had any podcast guest on thus far that’s ever talked about something as simple as this, when it comes to product optimization that I think genuinely is like a true Miss right now in the industry

Brian Johnson 50:50

is as is a huge opportunity. Because I can I can guarantee you that. But you know, I wasn’t just being cheeky when I said like I could walk into any niche on Amazon and immediately see the opportunities. That is that is a true statement. Because your competitors, they don’t understand the buyer psychology, they’re not taking the time to consider the buyer psychology fact, you’re probably even going up against some brands that have, you know, 1000 skews, and they don’t have the time and the resources in order to even go through that process. But you can write if you truly are passionate about the audience that you’re serving. I’ll probably mention it a little bit later on. As far as review analysis, that’s a whole whole additional topic that goes into that. But those examples, those are just a couple of, of you know, 20 different 30 different ways that you can make small improvements to how well the product, you know, catches somebody’s eyes compels them or interests them, hooks them, I call it into pull them into your product listing just from what’s in your first 75 characters of your title. And then going on as the analyst in itself. 100% is a yes, you can you can point out benefits. And I made I pointed out a couple of examples here as far as like how do you come up with a benefit or a feature that makes my product appear to be unique? Now, you brought up a very good point. And that is, you know, my competitors don’t do this currently. And that is yes, they will adapt when they see your success, they will emulate you. And you’ll need to continue to innovate. So just plan on every six months going back and looking at your niche and saying like, do I still stand out? Or do I need to to pivot a little bit do I need to adapt? And it’s okay for you to do that. Because you’re always the one leading the way taking advantage of that change. On the listing itself? Absolute no question, you can have as much text as you want as much images, videos, whatever the case is. But if you’re not answering right near the top, in the secondary images, in the bullet points in the a plus content, it’s going to show up differently depending on what device that you’re on anyway. So you might as well go to all of these is lead with the first three things that you state, the first three features or benefits that you state in a secondary image, or the first three bullet points, or the first, you know, row of images on a plus content or something is you’re quickly answering what’s in it for me if I buy this product, what’s the benefit to me is the consumer, keep it simple in language, don’t go over flowery, you know, and tell a story and you know, haiku and all that kind of stuff. It’s more of a case of, you’re simply just saying like in five to eight words, here’s the benefits, and then follow that chase that with another, you know, maybe the rest of the bullet points. For instance, here’s the feature or features that create this benefit for you. And if they’re a unique point, you know, they’re unique as well. Those are the things that you’re trying to get the shop to say I want that I want that I want that, at that point, you’ve got your customer before that, they if you’re making them work, if you’re making them read through and you’re telling your story and you’re they’re talking about stuff, they don’t care, like we donate 5% to the blah blah, blah organization, they don’t care. What they care about is when I get this party, it sounds selfish, but it works from a conversion rate standpoint, which is what you’re trying to do. And that is just handed to them. Here is the pain that we’re going to solve or here’s the thing that’s going to solve your pain. Here’s the benefit to you here’s how we’re going to do it. I’m certain certain niches are in categories have some other requirements to like beauty, for instance requires things like brand pedigree to be mentioned that kind of stuff and I can that’s a different topic there. But But in general, the what’s in it for me is is absolutely the number one honestly the easiest thing to implement, but the number one biggest impact on conversion rate is coming in quickly with some very succinct, really easy to read and understand within five seconds And what’s the benefit to me? Yeah, long number two, number three.

Josh Hadley 55:03

I love it. Brian, we could go on for the next four hours. Let’s just keep it at least I got you booked for the next four hours, right? Is that what I said? No, Brian, I mean, man, what a wealth of knowledge. This has been amazing. I myself, I’ve followed your stuff. And I’m like, I know this guy pretty well. But already, like I’ve been sitting here taking a bunch of notes and send my team some information here because this has been a goldmine of information. So I think our listeners, you need to go back and hit rewind a few times here. Brian, before I asked you the final three questions, I always ask our guests, I do love to leave the audience with three actionable takeaways from each episode. So here are three takeaways that I noted. Brian, let me know if you think I’m missing something. But number one, you’ve got to, you got to think of your brand, and your products as how am I going to innovate or differentiate my product listing? You know, long gone are the days of creating the two products and saying, Hey, this spatula niche looks awesome on Amazon, I’ll just go create another spatula. Now, if you can come up with a brand new type of spatula that nobody’s ever seen before, that’s where the innovation is required. And I think that people need to get comfortable in innovating all the time. So my action item here for our listeners is, is also kind of a mindset shift of like, Amazon, and E commerce in general, is not a passive income stream. Because as you mentioned, you might have come out with a new and innovative product right? Now, if you can get a design pan or a utility pan on it. That’s one thing. But six months down the road, you’re going to have people knocking you off no matter what. So you need to continue to innovate. This is not a set it and forget it, Strategy. So I think that that’s kind of action item number one is like always be innovating. You can’t just set it and forget it. Right. Action Item number two, is you need to think you need to go into those top search terms for your particular product and do the top 20 search terms. And actually look at the listing see what Amazon is pulling up? And you need to just evaluate, do my listings just blend in with the See of everybody else? Because if they do, you need to continue to innovate there. I think that’s you mentioned, like looking for patterns and trying to be you know, how do you stand out right now,

Brian Johnson 57:47

with your own product? Yeah,

Josh Hadley 57:49

yeah, you use some great examples there right with the shoes or having a red background or, in the case of oversaturation of content, maybe the white clean background will make a big difference. Yeah,

Brian Johnson 58:02

red background could be just like a red, red box, it’s in the background, a foot behind them, you know, to the right. So it’s not it’s not breaking Terms of Service by having, you know, like all that sort of white background. I want to hear it. Yeah, that’s true.

Josh Hadley 58:15

So clarify that read back. Everybody’s like, Wait, did Brian just say we could add red backgrounds? No. No, I’ll tell you thinking of how you can innovate, though, within the terms of service, right? For your product listings, okay. Breaking that pattern. And then third, last, but not least, is think about what’s in it for me, for the end customer. When you come up with your copy when you come up with your secondary images, if you don’t have that thought process in mind of what’s in it for me, and your first couple bullets in your title. And the first two images of your listing, don’t immediately answer like, how is the customer going to resolve their pain point, without purchasing this this product, then you’re going to lose? Because at the end of the day, there’s a Harvard Business study. It goes back to Wendy’s was trying to understand why most of their frosty purchases were being done actually, in the morning contrary to belief like that they were trying to figure out like, why are so many Frosties being purchased in the morning? What they found out is they actually interviewed their customers right and like, why are you buying this frosty in the morning? What they found out is that people were doing it to kind of pass the time by while they were sitting in traffic and their their frosty was a good consistency where it didn’t go away too quick, like a drink, right? But it wasn’t too chunky where and it was easy to slip on what and still pay attention to the road. Right and so, you know when these double down on kind of the thickness Have their frosty because they understood that, oh, they’re kind of using this to kind of pass the time by. It’s, it’s, it’s awesome. I mean, so that’s what I mean by like, even Wendy’s is doing that. And it changed the way that they kind of formulated their product. That’s the same thing that we need to be doing and understanding like, what is what is the customer hiring, or purchasing our product for to solve because they’re solving something in their life, whether it’s boredom, or whether it’s, you know, to not forget something or who knows what it is, but you can understand that and I think that goes into reviews, and you can dive deeper there with customer. So I think there could be go ahead, Brian, what else

Brian Johnson 1:00:42

into the Windies thing. So I also and this actually is apropos because I don’t want in part because I don’t think I’ve got an example here. But I want to show an example where when he’s actually failed, also. All right. And the reason for that is because I don’t want people to think aside like, oh, well, I’m not pointing this I’m not I don’t I don’t have you know, some pedigree of education, Ivy League, all that kind of stuff, right? None of that is a matter of like, if you assume that every person, every company is going to make mistakes. It’s your job within your environment within your product niche within your competitive set to simply identify, where did they stumble? Where did they make a mistake? And where can I put my best foot forward as part of the differentiation, the standing out? The example that I want to kind of bring up on that is that that was brilliant for Wendy’s to figure that out. Now, I like Wendy’s, one of my local Wendy’s restaurants nearby during the summer, in the evening, I would go in there and I’d stick my head in the door and say, Are you guys open? Like, yeah, of course we’re open. I can’t tell because it’s pitch black house on the outside. Oh, it makes us tint the windows to keep the air conditioning costs down. You guys look closed. That’s why there’s one car in the drive thru. And they’re like, Yeah, corporate doesn’t allow us to change that. We actually put the managers of that restaurant actually put in an open neon sign and corporate made them ticket down because it didn’t fit the bill. But they have these really dark windows in order to save against the Texas heat to reduce the cost of air conditioning. And yet they are killing their business by half in the evening. Because people didn’t even think that they’re open darkens. So, those are kind of the things that you can if you observe it, jump on it. If you’re a competitor jump all over.

Josh Hadley 1:02:35

You build you build the McDonald’s next to Wendy’s and you’re like, Well, we’re open.

Brian Johnson 1:02:40

Right? Well, you know, I mean, Texas, of course, we’ve got Whataburger and Waterberg is writing swinney’s Water burgers got a line going around the block to light up. But they also are like shining like we’re open for the next county to see.

Josh Hadley 1:02:53

So true. I love that. That’s a great, I’m glad that you added that in there. I think that’s a great point. All right, Brian. So let’s dive into the last final questions here. What’s been the most influential book that you’ve read and why?

Brian Johnson 1:03:08

I you know, I’ve got a number of them that I’m reading right now. Gosh, to narrow it down, I’m still gonna lean into Never Split the Difference from Chris Voss. That one. That one I just keep coming back to because there’s some religious really nuggets about human psychology. And there’s other things like influence and some some other books that are related to that the human psychology that I enjoy. That’s probably the one that I would recommend from a business standpoint is never split the difference by Chris Voss.

Josh Hadley 1:03:44

Awesome. That’s a great, great recommendation. Question number two is what is one of your favorite productivity tools, or newer, newest software that you’ve been utilizing? Maybe it’s a new software tool that many people don’t know about, that you’d recommend other people dive into?

Brian Johnson 1:04:01

Yeah, I mean, I think there’s a lot of different ways. Because because I know that I, myself and my team, we’ve got a number of tools, either that we’ve built in house or that we use the Republic of publicly available, and they’re commonly used, they’re popular, then for good reason for product, better research, these kinds of things. But there’s, there’s usually in a lot of these tools, there’s different ways of using the same data so that you’re not doing the same thing as everybody else was doing. But I will say it’s a tool that I would say is underutilized, that I strongly believe in, especially when it comes to the differentiation is standing out is review monitoring.com They’ve they’re currently rebranding to reviews, AI, I believe, and review monitoring.com is a bulk Amazon product review analysis tool goes 10 times beyond what I’ve seen with other review analysis tools, just because it’ll go in and it’ll, it’ll show you not simply as like, because you can tie it in so that you’re looking at your own product reviews, you’re looking at all your competitive product reviews. And what it’s looking for is what are the common patterns? From a sentiment standpoint, they were in a good mood, they’re in a bad mood, you know, they rated at low the rate at a high, what are the individual words that they came up or individual phrases that came up most frequently, when they were speaking negative about their purchase? And it goes in and it’s really highlights? What are some common keywords and then allows you to to like, okay, stemness out, you know, it kind of like the spiderweb out of the shows like, Oh, here’s the other words that are connected to this common phrase that keeps coming up in negative reviews or positive reviews. What that allows you to do is it allows you to look at Imbolc at your niche and say, what are the pain points that people are talking about? What are people praising about products, in my niche? What are people complaining about? And then you can use that information in order to emphasize the benefits and features of your own product or mitigate any kind of negativity that you might experience with your own product? Simply by understanding what other products are people looking at? And what other reviews and kind of telling the story of what the shoppers experience is. I would love to have that extend out to social media platforms, anytime, Legion, what is the sentiment that goes along with that? Oh, no, it doesn’t exist. I keep on saying I’m gonna build that someday, and I haven’t. But from an Amazon standpoint, reviewmonitoring.com. I’m not an affiliate for I wish I had a percentage of that company as as much as I like talking about it. But I am, I’m a fan. And I do use that to really dig into who my target audience is, and what their pain points are that I can address in that particular.

Josh Hadley 1:07:02

Awesome. That’s a great tool. I haven’t used that one before. But that’s definitely one sounds very valuable. I know exactly how we would use that in our business. And it goes right along with everything that you just talked about today, being able to understand the customer so much better and differentiate and focus on the what’s in it for me. So thanks for sharing that with us. Last but not least, Brian, who is somebody that you admire or respect the most in the E commerce space that you think people should be paying attention to? Oh,

Brian Johnson 1:07:33

there’s a lot of people, there’s a lot of emojis in the market, there’s a lot of up and coming, I will fully admit is one of my character flaws that I had more so in the past was, you know, believing everything that I said that was was said about me and getting my you know, I had, you know, get a big head big ego. And there were a couple of times in the past where I’ve shut down somebody who’s new and up and coming that I should have shown more respect to but didn’t. And that was just, you know, a character flaw of my own ego at the time. I think I’ve outgrown that, but I’m human. But so I don’t necessarily know that was my point of that is not to dismiss any, anybody who’s up and coming, trying to get the knowledge trying to put out the knowledge. If there’s just saying bad stuff. Yes, I’m going to call him out on it. But you know, I need I take a second look. Now, if even if I have my doubts, I take a second look and try to get a better perspective. Right. But I would say that the ones that I feel like I just embrace the messaging and really try to absorb it and use it that I’ve met personally a couple of times and I know is has done very well. It’s actually a couple you actually may know them as well. They used to be in Austin now they’re in Vegas, Alex and Leila HormozI. It’s H O R M O Z I, I believe is her mercy. They they did they used to have a probably still do actually the gym launch brand they they were entrepreneurs that figured out a system for making the typically unprofitable, gym membership become profitable and you know, a model, a business model that actually works which is very uncommon among gyms and martial arts studios and all that kind of stuff. But they the amount that I’ve seen them grow over the years and they’ve just become more and more brilliant, the more success they’ve had. And they’ve got great hearts and they’re willing to share it. I know Alex, for instance, has a YouTube channel where he’ll talk about some of the things and and of course his wife. Leila is a brilliant person to listen to, especially for those who are in the eight 910 figure businesses, Leila HormozI he is no question. Shouldn’t I would make sure that you’re plugging into what she’s what she’s teaching.

Josh Hadley 1:10:04

Awesome that definitely recommend Alex where Mozi and I’ve heard him speak in the past as well. And yeah, he he drops a lot of brilliance. Everywhere he goes in everywhere he speaks. So I second that. And I also know his book. I think it’s A Million Dollar OFfers Right. Right. Book. So,

Brian Johnson 1:10:23

yeah, is his wife male is a yeah, if you’re up above the, you know, like I said, the eight nine figure business. Leila has some some pearls of wisdom that these you’ve gotta catch.

Josh Hadley 1:10:36

So, good input. Well, thank you, Bryan. Bryan, last thing, you know, I know you have kind of a free gift that you want to leave with our audience. If they want to learn more about your services? Where did they find you go ahead and tell everybody about that?

Brian Johnson 1:10:50

Yeah, absolutely. So I will say is that the from the agency standpoint, from canopy management, one of the things that, that we can offer is we’ve gotten really good about we do a hand audit, in other words, a manual process audit of an Amazon seller account. And we’ll come in and we’ll tell that brand, okay, here’s what you’re doing, right, here’s what you’re doing wrong, here’s where your growth path, your potential sales and profitability should be at. And here’s how you need to get there. And that’s something that we do is of course, it is a model that we use, in hopes that you’ll look at us and say like, oh, wow, you guys really know what you’re doing the depth that you went into, you guys clearly know, the Strategy and the path that needs to be done, I’ll just hire you guys to do it, as you did Josh, right. But if it doesn’t turn into that, and it’s something that we it’s very common for us to, to provide that kind of an audit may say, like, cool, thanks for the information, they may choose somebody else, a year later, they come right back. So we know that, you know, there’s there’s a lifetime value of simply providing that kind of, you know, value to people within our community and our brands. And so that is something that we can offer, certainly for your listeners is to just go out to canopymanagement.com and just ask for that Strategy session.

Josh Hadley 1:12:13

Awesome. And where can people follow you, Brian?

Brian Johnson 1:12:17

You know, so So I’m on social media. I’m not currently, I’m done for 2022. As far as the speaking stage goes, so I’m not doing any. Obviously, your I think yours is actually probably the last one that I’m doing. Even from, you know, an online, you know, podcast kind of standpoint, too. So I’m going to take the rest of the year off.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:40

So well deserved.

Brian Johnson 1:12:42

Yeah, but I would say that certainly the most common way. I mean, I was you know, Facebook and LinkedIn, you can look up, you know, Canopy Management, or Brian or Johnson on LinkedIn, for instance, reached out to me there, I’m in multiple places. I’ve got a YouTube channel that hasn’t been updated in a while, but it still has some great content on it. Or, frankly, if you want to just email me at Brian@canopymanagement.com I’ll receive it

Josh Hadley 1:13:07

easy enough. So Well, Brian, thanks so much for joining us today. You’ve dropped a lot of knowledge with us all and so I encourage our listeners to go follow you and and check out your stuff moving forward. But thanks for joining us today.

Brian Johnson 1:13:19

Glad to be here. I had a lot of fun. Thank you.

Outro 1:13:23

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