Josh Hadley 4:20
Awesome. Well, Leo, we’ve got a lot to dive into today. And so what I want to do, obviously, as you know, many of our listeners are seven-figure sellers, and they are trying to grow to eight figures and beyond. And so we want to share with them all the actionable strategies that they can implement that is going to help them grow their brand. And what I think before we hit record here today, we talked about some of the things you have been doing recently and you had talked about some of the research that you had been doing on the A9 algorithm that I think not many people have been talking about, you know some of the things that you discovered during your research. So, why don’t you share the research that you did uncovering Amazon’s A9 algorithm that kind of helps rank products and the takeaways for Amazon sellers to increase their sales.
Leo Sgovio 5:11
Yeah, Josh and I have listeners here that know me and will eventually got to know me over the past few years. They know that one thing about me is that I love to really understand what’s behind certain things. I told Gavin actually Kevin King A story. Once when I was on his podcast that when I was a kid, my parents gave me a gift. For my birthday was a radio and one of those old school FM radios. And the day after they found me in my bedroom, with a with a radio taken apart, I was basically like trying to understand what was inside the radio instead of enjoying the radio. So obviously, they got upset. But that was like my nature, since when I was a kid, I always needed to understand how things function. And so one thing that really caught my attention curiosity lately is, last time I’m following, of course, an SEO course again from someone that is very, very interesting in the space and kind of like rediscover the the Google SEO algorithm. And that brought me to go back and read some of the Amazon A9 patents. There is a website, which I can quickly pull up here, it’s called unifiedpatents.com, where you can go and research all patents that have been registered. So you can go and see and filter by airline, you can filter by keywords. So what I did, I looked at the keyword patterns that include keywords such as ranking, and I came across a patent from Amazon AI. And that talks a lot about the cold start, which is basically the problem that Amazon is when you’re launching your product. And they don’t know anything about you. Because you obviously don’t have historical data, you don’t have traffic and reviews. So they need to understand where to place you in the index. And then the patent, I discovered a few concepts. And then few very interesting notions that are in a very, very, I guess, important for you, when you launch a product want to know and understand so that you can better optimize a listing based on what Amazon is looking for was the what the search engine and the 89 algorithms looking for, versus what you know, some keyword tools or some gurus out there might be teaching you. So one of the things I always say to people, like you need to learn the business, first you need to learn, you know why certain things work certain ways, before you delegate or you listen to somebody else, because otherwise there is a disconnect there, right? And the results are not as you expect. So anyway, just long story short, what the algorithm says is that when you launch a new product on Amazon, being semantically relevant to a certain in a certain context, is very, very important. And so in one of my presentations I’m giving out a conference next week is, is exactly like understanding how to ensure that your listing is semantically relevant to the main topic or subject of your product, instead of going broad, and for as many keywords as possible. Because what it does, it actually dilutes your relevancy for that, you know, of your listing for a specific keyword or or a group of keywords. And so instead of helping you, it hurts your rankings. And so if you agree through the lines, why the algorithm says is that, you know, what Amazon does is they look at the top ranking products for, you know, similar to yours, and they see what keywords they rank for, and then they expect you to potentially have a very similar listing. So it sounds silly, but if you clone in quotes, obviously, you know, with your own words, changing, changing listening to your words, an existing listing that is already ranking very well for as many keywords as possible that are relevant and similar to yours, a you you are actually helping the search engine to understand much much faster what your product is about, and from an SEO perspective. So excluding all the other metrics such as reviews and clicks and add to carts and icon versions, then you should be in a much better position from an SEO perspective. Does that make sense?
Josh Hadley 10:05
Yeah, I love that. And I want to maybe dive in a little bit deeper here. So basically, to summarize what you talked about here, Leo, you’re saying that Amazon in their actual pan that they have to publicly release right? In their pan, they’re saying that, hey, there’s this cold start, if you have a new product, one of the things that they’re trying to do is trying to compare you to the best seller, right that already has this ranking. And you’re you talked about being semantically relevant, which basically means like, don’t just use any keyword, but use like probably more on like the hyper specific and more longtail keywords to help Amazon, learn what your product actually is. And I think that is like the key takeaway. I know, that’s one thing that we do with our brand. Because that’s always, without even you sharing that information, I’ve always kind of had that opinion in the back of my mind that like, Amazon has no idea what your product is, sure, there’s images, sure, they could be using AI to look at the images and go through your copy. But at the end of the day, they still have no idea what your product is. And so what we’ve done with our products is that from day one, we lined up product targeting ad campaigns for all of those top sellers, so that Amazon also sees that we’re pushing heavily on these top competitors so that they see oh, okay, this product is similar to this, when people are shopping this best seller, they’re also sometimes clicking on this other listing, which even though it may, may or may not lead to an Add to cart or a purchase, but even just the click from their detail page, to my detail page, I’m of the opinion that there’s something in the A at nine algorithm that’s like, Okay, I like this, maybe we need to get give a little bit more love to this, because they’re taking a lot of clicks away from this best-sellers product detail page. So I kind of have my hypothesis on that, which I’d be eager to hear your thoughts on. And then I’m also curious, you know, you talked about being semantically relevant and, you know, utilizing some of the best practices and keywords from the top sellers in that product category. My question would be like, is the title the most important aspect? Or is it the bullets, or is it the description? Or frankly, is it like, you’ve got to cover all three bases there? So those would be kind of my questions. I’d love to dive in deeper on this subject.
Leo Sgovio 12:40
Yeah. So thanks for asking this question is a very, very thorough and so one, the first one, your opinion is actually fact. So when it comes to driving traffic from paid ads, for example, to your listing, and targeting products, or similar products, what you’re doing is actually now playing or going to encodes manipulate the behavioral metrics, which Amazon calls behavioral features. So in other words, like I said, at the beginning, when excluding all these other metrics, all you’re saying to Amazon is, uh, hey, this is my cover, right? This is my, my listing is like when you write a book, and you have an index, right, this is what my listing is about. Now, when you look at the index that, you know, doesn’t, doesn’t come with the reviews and the feedback about the book, you don’t know anything yet about the book, you’re just by the index, judging what this book is about. And if you want to keep reading, try it. And so when you then go and advertise your product, using sponsored products, right, what you’re doing, you’re actually helping Amazon associate your product with your with similar products. So it’s easier now for them to say, Okay, well, this listing, like people that are visiting this listing are actually also visiting this one. And so that’s how these are creating this ecosystem or this, this group that as I affinity or AI relevancy score. And so I remember a story that a friend of mine told me, I think it was a couple of years ago. Josh, are you familiar with the supplements space?
Josh Hadley 14:34
I don’t play in that space, but obviously very familiar with many of the strategies that people are using within that space. It’s a whole other world for sure.
Leo Sgovio 14:43
So there is a brain there. It’s called now it’s called Dakota, back a couple of years ago was called mix RX. And the two friends of mine they were the founders of this company. And during COVID they were killing it. They were literally I think one day they the hit $1 million in one day. But and, and the one of the guys was telling me that the way they were launching products was purely with PPC now, now giveaways, no reviews, but they were spending on day one, close to $60,000-$70,000, just on advertising. And the way they were doing it, it was just by targeting and using all possible features and campaigns that Amazon makes available to sellers, so that they could get as much visibility as possible in the Amazon catalog, not only in their category by categories that didn’t even didn’t even belong or or or were relevant to their product. In fact, I remember one day they were ranking in the automotive category for like immune support supplement or something like that. Wow. And, and so now that you’re also, you know, saying that PPC, responsive private placements really helps you rank better because of the association that Amazon then makes when it comes to receiving clicks from similar products or similar listings. Or a user that is purchasing and shopping for the same product, then it does make a lot of sense, right? The more data you feed to the engine, the more data they know about yours. And eventually you start getting also conversions, then is a lot easier. But to answer the second question, though.
Josh Hadley 16:36
So Leo, before you move in, before you move into that second question, I want to double down on just kind of like a hack that we have found. When we launch our product targeting ad campaigns. From day one, what we do is instead of just creating one product, targeting ad campaign, and then dumping all of the relevant competitors into one campaign, we have broken up the competitors in into single competitor campaigns wanting to save single keyword, but it’s single competitor campaigns. For this reason, if we see that we’re kicking one particular competitors rear end, we can boost that budget, we can increase our CPC bids, right, and we can just fly and then the ones that we’re not doing as well on we can scale back. And so having that ability, like because Amazon gives like each campaign its own score, right? Yeah. And so again, if you have something that’s performing well, your campaign score is going to be a lot higher, maybe that results in a smaller bid that you have to bid for. And you still get premium placement on that, but just wanted to share that as like a hack that, like break them up like this is such an important aspect of the ranking algorithm is Amazon figuring out what your product is that we’ve had a lot of success going single competitor exact campaigns.
Leo Sgovio 18:03
So, yeah, that’s a good one I like to use in the Microsoft software to automate that in Scale.
Josh Hadley 18:08
Yeah, we’ve been using Pacvue to do that. Yeah, yeah, that’s
Leo Sgovio 18:13
a good one. Yeah, the most important thing, Josh, I think is ensuring that you’re targeting the products that rank for the highest number of keywords in your targeted keyword, at least certain keywords. That make sense. Because if you do that properly, you’re getting a relevant traffic, and the more relevant traffic you get, the better results you will achieve over time, from our rank stickiness perspective, because a lot of people what they what they what happens to them is that after they launch the product, maybe they have a good successful or decent launch with some giveaways. And you know, the people still do search, search, find and buy, right. But then eventually the ranking drops. I mean, that can happen for different reasons, you know, the increase the price normally, and then the price, then the rate, the conversion rate goes down. And so eventually, like you get that result. But if you drive qualified traffic, at the very least for the first 90 days, you should be able to get your product to stick, whatever, you know, in and up in the first 90 days. At least that’s what we’ve seen by adopting this type of strategy. And we’re ranked right now like my partner with a game that we launched doesn’t believe that we rank number one or number two for probably one of the top keywords, very broad is like I can’t believe that we are risky, where I’m like, Yeah, because the product is very in a way laser targeted the theme and the keywords around the theme. And we did a good job at the beginning of driving the right traffic. And so I don’t think Amazon has any doubt if the relevancy of that keyword for our product is strong or not, right? So, yeah, the title that yeah, like you were asking earlier, if the title is the most important thing, obviously, the title of those play, the biggest, I think, is the biggest element on the page when it comes to rankings by Josh, what I noticed is that the images are also super, super important. So in the patent, Amazon says that they scan the content of the images, and they extract text from these images to understand also what the product is about. Because if you’re not, if you think about it the most, that what people look at first are the seven, eight images that you have in your listing, then a look at the title or the title first, because it’s in the search results, and they look at the images. And then they read the bullet points, right. And so what they look at is the content in these images. And this is an exercise that I did a couple of weeks ago with one of the clients that I’m consulting for, because they weren’t ranking or they weren’t indexed on Google for a specific keyword. And they noticed that so I created this Google Sheet, where I was analyzing the top 10 competitors. And then I took all the top 10 keywords, relevant keywords on Google, and only two of them of the other 10 competitors, only two of them that were ranking. And we were an index for the last thing that we wanted to be indexed for. So what I did, they went back in, they started optimizing the listing based on what I saw, or what I thought was important, based on the competitor was ranking actually on Amazon. And this happened fairly quickly. I think two or three days later, we were actually indexed on Google. And why they do is actually
Josh Hadley 21:52
What did you do?
Leo Sgovio 21:55
Yeah, what I did was actually, so I took apart the listing and the images, my basically asked the client to send me the folder where they had all the images, I hope open each one of them Photoshop, add meta tags, I added, I changed some of the images, the tax on the images. So you know, some of us use images with text on it that is kind of meaning less for research. And from a search engine perspective, I understand that might be a good phrase for the for the customer. But ultimately, we have to know when it comes to SEO Josh, I had this problem. Also, when I was doing Google SEO, there is always a friction, huge friction between the content, or the UI UX team and the SEO team. Because these people here, they want to ensure that the website is beautiful. And this, you know, optimized for the customers, and SEO, it’s all about search engines. So you have to find a compromise. And when you also build your A-plus content, your images, you also have to ensure that you’re using keyword phrases that not only convey whatever your product is about to the customer, but also our search engine understand what this product is about. And so when I did that, I changed the main text on an image in the a plus content, that’s when we got indexed. And we started ranking for one of the keywords now, for a new product, this may be much harder to do. This is a problem that has been around since 2016. And that like 35,000 reviews, so Google already knows, you know what this product is about. And also, it probably gets crawled. But it was very quick, when we made these changes. And so that proves Yeah, that does prove that the images obviously play a big role. So I also changed all that our tags, in the images, they didn’t have optimized alt tags, the images were uploaded without using the keywords in the name of the image. But most importantly, are in the meta tags, when you say when you export the image from Photoshop, you have to select the copyright option so that the image is exported with a copyright. And so when the search engines crawl and index their image that will help you also be found from the Google Images catalog, right? Yeah, so that those are all things that sometimes we overlook, but they’re very important.
Josh Hadley 24:32
I love that. I love that. So you’re saying that metadata in the back end of an image is super important. And I know that Google likes that metadata right inside of an image. Does that play? Do you think Amazon’s looking at the metadata because I’ve heard mixed opinions on that.
Leo Sgovio 24:51
I think the search engine is looking at everything they need to understand the context of your listing and so that the images and it’s in the patent so you can read through the patent and they mentioned images. So I’m pretty sure that the nine algorithm also scans the images, the context is really easy to extract the text, at the very least they extract the text from the image. So if you’re ranking for, you know, if you want to rank for a vitamin C serum, and you know, your image, the second image says, your face will never look, you know, as young or whatever, you’re not really telling anything to the search engine. But if you put this vitamin C serum will help you look younger, then the algorithm will actually understand that that is vitamin C serum product image, right? So this is the difference between the two, you know, one optimize for this change in one optimize only for the user for the customer?
Josh Hadley 25:44
Yeah, I love that, Leo, that that definitely is something that has not talked about in terms of incorporating your keywords into your actual images, because Amazon is actually scanning those images for text. And you just shared a knowledge bomb with all of us. my follow up question on this Leo, which I think will kind of lead us into our next quick conversation on search, query performance and finding hidden keywords. But before we get to that point, my question is, with this whole strategy of incorporating keywords into your images to help you rank not only on Google, but Amazon as well. Are you finding better success with broad search terms? Or keywords? Right? Could be like office supplies, right? I mean, that is super broad? Or are you seeing more success with longtail keywords that are hyper relevant for that product? And if they’re hyper relevant, then you’ll kind of shoot through the roof in terms of Amazon’s rankings. What have you seen working best?
Leo Sgovio 26:46
Josh’s? Finally, yes, mucus is exactly what I’m covering the presentation next week? Yeah, so look, I spent a lot of time analyzing this specific topic. And with the help of chargeability, I was able to come up with a list of keywords that is, is semantically relevant, but excludes the root keyword. So let me give you a step back a second. You mentioned earlier, one very broad keyword. And then that obviously that most of us consider the root keyword right? Now the problem is as I did this exercise with a weight loss product, okay, now, assuming that we have a product that is weight loss pills, in the we might assume that weight loss is the main keyword, right? That’s, obviously belongs to that, to that to that segment or category. However, that’s too broad. You know, weight loss is too broad. It’s like, you know, one of my slides is about, imagine two buckets containing toys, one contains cars, and one contains stuffed animals, they both belong to the toys category. But if you look at toys, if you want to rank for toys for kids, that’s too broad, right? Because you’re now not semantically relevant. So you either go after all keywords related to cars, or go out keywords, to stuffed animals, by going for toys, it’s really too broad, you potentially could aim to to rank for toys for kids. But it is going to be very difficult if you go and skim the list in and potentially target all these keywords that are only about that specific product. Over time, it’s much easier for you to rank for toys for kids. And so what I did, I went to judge pt. And I changed the prompt three times, because I wasn’t still happy with the results that it gave me. So what I did there, at the beginning, I told you typically that it was an NLP expert, and needed to perform a semantic analysis on this group of keywords given just this group of keywords, I gave him a list of keywords that I got from one of the probably one of the best keyword research tools out there. And the keyword list included keywords such as weight loss, green coffee, weight loss, things like that, right, they all kind of belong to the same. Though I will say like segment, but not all of them were semantically relevant. So the first time the keywords such as weight loss, the green coffee, they were still there together with weight loss for women were loss for me were loss pills. Then I said Okay, now, my product is weight loss pills. So you need to make sure that the keywords that you’re giving me are semantically relevant and exclude all the brands exclude all the keywords that are not relevant. So the second list was actually much, much better, by the way laws was still there. And then at the end, I think I said, Okay, now I gave him a bunch of rules to follow. I said, Now, here’s my product, here’s a list of keywords, but you want to exclude our branded and the relevant ones, you want to exclude all noncom all non commercial keywords, you want to exclude irrelevant, sorry, you want to skip informational keywords. Because, you know, we want to make sure that the listing is up, like the keywords that we’re getting are actually commercial intent keywords, because we are on Amazon, we’re not on Google. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so at the end, I got from an input of 55-plus keywords to like 24, I think 23-24. And they were all very, like, tight in terms of the overall theme that I was after. And so obviously, at the beginning, they said your main thing: categories, weight loss, supplements, weight loss, supplements and wellness, then you said, Okay, you’re selling weight loss supplements, which was correct. So I understood the topic much, much better. And then you said your main root keywords is weight loss pills, so it was no longer weight loss, but Well, it was weight loss pills. So now, when we go after weight loss pills, and all the keywords after for Amazon will be much, much easier to understand the context of your product.
Josh Hadley 31:22
Makes a lot of sense. Leo, I have so many questions. Do you just keep opening up another can of worms here? Just so much value that’s like, Oh, my goodness, now we need to dive in here. Alright, I want to first ask you to clarify for our listeners as well, when you talk about being semantically relevant. What does that mean?
Leo Sgovio 31:43
So the semantic relevance, Josh, is it depends on in what context. I mean, in a while I want to make it kind of easy for the listeners here by semantic relevance is, is our search changing the sides if two words or products are related to each other based on their meanings, that in simple words, what is semantic relevance is about So if if, if the meaning is not close between two words or products, then you’re you’re kind of like off context, right? And that’s why, you know, we lost, we lost bills, even though they belong to the same category, but there is a huge, like, there’s a big distance between the meaning. And because we’re lost can mean anything, right? You can be looking for information you can be looking for. Why, why what it means, you know, like, there’s a lot of love behind the just the phrase gay walk away large, but when you look at weight loss pills, you’re thinking a specific way of thinking about pills, know what I’m saying. And so when you now use that, as root, every other keyword should contain that weight loss pills. Okay, I know what I’m saying. So that’s why, you know, when you’re looking to create a keyword list that is semantically relevant, you have to make sure that that main root is always contained in all of that.
Josh Hadley 33:09
Yeah, I love it. All right. So here would be kind of my next follow up question. I’m putting you on the spot here. You just shared what it seems to be a wicked smart ChatGPT kind of flow, to say, hey, here’s some big keywords, help me sort through all of these and understand their importance. Do you have any of these prompts that you’d be able to make? Do you have these in like a Google Doc that you could even share with the audience, and maybe you could put it behind some lead capture for yourself. But I know our listeners would be fascinated to see that entire process flow, because I know you’ve talked about it. But I’m sure there’s a lot of very specific language that you have in there that has ChatGPT, get you to the end result. So that would be my big question to you is like, Leo, I want access to the amazing prompts that you created there.
Leo Sgovio 34:02
Yeah, Josh, I am actually working on this Google Sheet that automates this process. So I am, I’m almost done with it, I just have to integrate one one more API. But you, technically speaking, there are two ways you can use it. One is if you give it your Asin. And then what what it will do gives you a recommendation as if it was some sort of an analyst or an editor. And they will basically tell you that this listing is missing certain things or for example, you should improve this part of the listing so gives you a recommendation on the current listing. And then the other one is exactly what you’re asking. So given a list of keywords, a will apply the prompts that I came up with at the end, and they will give you just a semantically relevant subset of keywords instead. So this tool right now I mean, by the time this podcast will be live will definitely be available. And probably the best way to download or get access to the Google Sheets will be by going to layers google.com/tools and putting together a list of tools under my domain. And yeah, happy to share with everyone that is interested.
Josh Hadley 35:23
Awesome. Alright, Leo. Sounds amazing. I know, I’m going to be one of the first one downloads that.
Leo Sgovio 35:28
Anytime, Josh. You can preview it.
Josh Hadley 35:32
I love it. All right, Leo, we, we spent so much time just talking about the A9 algorithm and you know how to increase our rankings there, especially when launching a new product, want to turn our attention now more towards, you know, the search query performance and how you’ve been able to utilize that to uncover hidden keywords that weren’t initially discovered, and also helped one of your products become less seasonal, because of some of these keywords that you found. So I’d love for you to kind of share that case study of how you turn the seasonal product into a more evergreen product and how you went about finding these keywords that drove additional traffic outside of Q4 for you.
Leo Sgovio 36:14
Yeah, Josh says that was a very interesting learning for me. So last year was around August, September, we launched a new product in the car games for kids. And we had a fairly successful launch. And we’re gonna restart couple of times. But it was also q4. And so we were super excited about the launch. But then we noticed that sometime in around January, the sales went down. And so we were trying to figure out if that was caused by as running out of stock. So losing momentum, or just the product was a little bit seasonal, being a card game for kids, obviously, December, November, December is I-season, because parents grandparents are obviously looking for a gift for their lives for their children or grandchildren. Right. So eventually, what I did, I started digging into the search query report. And I found out that there were some other keywords that people were searching for, that I didn’t think of, by the way, are not necessarily, you know, seasonal. So even though we were ranking very well, for some of the, you know, some of the keywords that are generic, by there were some others key words that allowed us to make the product actually evergreen, even if it wasn’t like Christmas, or Easter, or when your any of these occasions. And so I think one of them was really to, in targeting people that were looking for games for a car drives, or where they go on long, long, long drives, right. So they always look for something to do in the car. And so when we started looking outside of the typical search queries for this specific game, we found a whole bunch of keywords that we could use throughout the year to boost the sales without relying necessarily on q4. And so when I started doing that, we saw the sales instantly, like spiking because there is enough traffic. If you look around for other keywords, we just mean aware and optimize for them. And so now we have constant sales. I think this is what happened to us. We started doing when we launched 30, 40 sales a day, then we did an influencer marketing campaign. And we went to 151, 180. There were another stock that we got back in stock. And the sales kept going. I think at some point during Q4, we’re doing 3, 400 units a day. And then right after Christmas, we went back down to 30. So now after adding these keywords that I found in the search query report, they were back again, I think 70-80 a day. And the product is fairly new, you know, we’re talking about six, seven other reviews, you know, it’s not compared to other products in the in the same category that I have 10,000-20,000 reviews were much smaller, right. But again, if you apply what I mentioned, you know, we mentioned the past half hour together with these other strategies you eventually like can get a good business running. And so this is, in a nutshell what I did to turn a somewhat seasonal product into a product that sells well throughout the year.
Josh Hadley 39:53
I think that’s a fabulous, I think that’s a fabulous case study. My one question here is like, what were the specific things you were looking for, or that you, you know, how did you use search query performance to identify those keywords that initially were not on your list, you know, such as like the, you know, games for kids for car drives, right? Like your that’s not initially come into the top of your mind, it is a great use case. But initially, you’re thinking like card games for kids for, you know, Christmas gifts or Easter basket. And those are the obvious ones. Right? So that would be my question like for other sellers, like, how do you sort through because search query performance? There’s a lot of data in it. So what are your recommendations to actually uncover those hidden keywords through search query performance? Do you mind walking us through your process that you use to identify that?
Leo Sgovio 40:44
Yeah, Josh. So, what I did, actually, I ended up using a tool. It’s called Jungle Ace. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of it. I don’t think I’ve heard of them. Yeah, I think that the guy behind the company is Dimitri Vorona, one of the founders of AMZ Innovate. And they put together this Google Sheet that allows you to analyze search query reports, in our like, like, in a very comprehensive way. It requires a little bit of manual work, because you have to go into your account and download weekly reports. So the more reports you download, the better obviously, the software reports are available from the day you started selling, or you’re there anyway, it’s available from today, you start selling that product. So I was able to go back August last year, downloaded weekly reports. And then when I imported everything into jungle ace, which is a Google sheet, I was able to get a summary of all the search queries. And in those key words that were, whether they were outliers, or keywords, they were generating consistent sales, but also keywords that we were not targeting, but that they there was an opportunity from a sales perspective, because the perhaps they didn’t have a lot of search volume, but they had very high conversion rate. Yeah, so when we looked at this, this report and the output of this Google Sheet, then that’s how I was able to find these keywords, I’m like, holy this is this is good, this is good, because I didn’t think of these keywords. But if I do put these keywords in, in, in my listing, we could potentially get sales throughout the year, instead of just relying on the main occasions that occur throughout the year. So the one thing that I will say though, if you do this, always backup or a note of your old title or bullet points, whatever you do, because before you know Q4 kicks in, you might want to reverse back revert back to what your title or your listing is about. So you have to adopt this kind of dynamic approach. You know, Q4 is over-optimized now you’re listing based on what’s trending or what, what the search query report is telling you. But then once you know for example, Easter comes everyone is probably looking for again, some some toys for kids for their Easter eggs or something, something like that. They’re you know, especially in the States, I think they also give gifts for Easter. So you want to bring the listing back to what it was and then change it again. Right. So if you learn how to do that properly, you have a consistent amount of sales throughout the year without you know having to necessarily just warning about Q4.
Josh Hadley 43:37
Yeah, what a brilliant strategy here and Jungle Ace. Can you spell that to make sure that we type that in right because I love the what it sounds like that tool can provide?
Leo Sgovio 43:52
Yeah, jungle J U N G L E and then ace A C E.
Josh Hadley 44:04
Oh, A C E. Alright. Jungle Ace. All right. So I was thinking jungle lays or something that was like getting real confused there. So Jungle Ace to our listeners. And they can just simply Google it? You’ll find the website?
Leo Sgovio 44:20
Yeah, Jungle Ace, you should find the website. And then there is I think under their academy, I’m just checking quickly now. UI of the Jungle Ace Google Sheets analyzer tools. So once you go to their website, and then from the menu, go to one second year you go to academy, you will find as the number one results in under the academy, their Jungle Ace Google Sheet Analyzer tool. And then what do you do you just follow the instructions they have step by step instructions on how to style their Google Sheet extension, download the analyzer tool, and then perform the analysis based on your data, so that’s, you know, one of the best tools, to be honest that I came across in the past probably a year or so.
Josh Hadley 45:07
I love it. Yeah, it sounds amazing. And sounds like it really helped your brand. Leo, we are running up on time here. But there’s one key part that I definitely want to get to, we probably are only going to have maybe a couple minutes to actually address this topic. But going back to your brand, and the product that you launched last year with this cards, game card games for kids, you talked about how Hey, we were doing 30, 40 sales, and then you know, peak season we’re doing 100. But then you mentioned like, we turned on our influencer campaigns. And we just shot through the roof, we’re doing consecutively hundreds of products a day. So that’s where you poured gasoline on the fire. And that’s what Convomat is all about, that you’ve created. So I want you to maybe dissect and give us, you know, as much juiciness as you possibly can about influencer and affiliate campaigns, and maybe your best strategies there to drive traffic to Amazon listings and to help increase the ranking.
Leo Sgovio 46:09
Yeah, Josh. You know, I believe that today, using any external traffic strategy that works, is definitely going to help the business grow in the rankings as well. And now we know we know that Amazon loves external traffic. So the beauty of influencer traffic is that, you know, people like to buy from people. And so when you find the right influencers, when you find these people that have a very good affinity with your brand, and they’re, you know, pleasant to watch, because they’re very creative, you get that, you know, that spark that works extremely well between your brand and the audience. Right. And so I think what we did very well was an on nailing the type of influencer that we needed to eventually find to promote our product. And they were obviously influencer with kids and happy with the people, like parents love watching other kids having fun, and they want to see their kids the same way. So you play with the motions, you play with these types of attributes. And eventually, you know, you’re going to see that resulting in the entire sales. And the way the combo might connect, that the software that I created, makes it easier is not only by helping you find these influencers, but because you know, there are a lot of companies that do that already. But the way that Convomat Connect in unique way helps boost and scale, then whether that kind of efforts that you have made by finding these influencers is by creating a network, have this brand ambassadors or affiliates that are now working for your brand. And so instead of you having to adopt this kind of like rinse-and-repeat methodology, you now found one, you have an affiliate deal with them. They’re just you know, like you’re just working together, you can extend the attribution for as long as you want. And so instead of giving them $50-$100, only, they’re getting a paycheck almost on a monthly basis or for as frequently as they want. And so it’s a no brainer for a brand to do that, especially now that you’re getting the referral bonus from Amazon. So it really makes it’s like another engine working on the side to boost your sales. And if you have, I guess, a proper strategy, where we, for example, we schedule a couple of influencers a week, throughout the year. So if you have that you do the research at the beginning, now you have that consistently happening throughout the year. It’s another source of traffic, driving sales, too.
Josh Hadley 48:50
I love that. Now, Leo, with that, you know, you’re having influencers post, you know, couple times a week for you all throughout the year. Now, with that being said, my question is, do you have to pay per post? Or is it straight 100%, you know, performance driven, you get, you know, 10%, whatever of what it is that you sell, because I know, especially some big influencers are like Sorry, it’s going to be 1000 bucks per post. And if you want to in my reels, then that’s going to be an extra $500. And then it’s like, look, this content is only going to, you know, last really for 24 hours, and then it’s going to kind of dry up so to speak. I mean, it lives on forever, but like the effectiveness of is like there for that 24 hour period. So that would be my question. Well, like have you seen better performance one way or or the other and tell me more about that.
Leo Sgovio 49:45
Josh, to be honest, we stopped paying for every post after like once we started using this tool because this is the beauty of it. It allows you to now establish this relationship. And so because they’re getting paid he’d like sometimes they log into their account, and they see $500 commissions, $600 commissions, right? They didn’t expect that. So when you go back because we have a live chat system in our applications, when you go back and say, Hey, would you mind doing another post? They’re like, Yeah, I’ll do it. No worries, because they know they’re getting paid, you know, actually don’t look any more at the $50-$100 as their main source of income, because they’re lonely. They’re starting to think long term as well. And the beauty of these, Josh, if you do it properly, is that you’re also helping them in their audience, kind of stick to their Creator account, because I think there was an article on Mashable probably couple of months ago saying how the audience of these creators is now starting to get tired of seeing Amazon products being promoted every other day. So what happens is now this, these creators are starting to lose some followers. Now, because of the momentum of Tik Tok, for example, they don’t even notice, because it’s like this artistic, they, they’re getting so many more followers than those that are losing, right. But they’re still losing some when they’re promoting new products every time. And so if you try to explain this to them and say, Look, you don’t need to lose followers, you’re working hard to create new content to be liked. Just pick your 5, 10 brains that you’re going to work with throughout the year, and you’re going to make more money. So this is what I’m doing from an educational perspective. So I’m hoping that over time, you know, I’m able to change that. But from a brand perspective, I think it’s important to secure some of these creators as soon as possible, and show them that they can make more money. Because once the kind of the trend and then the way that brands and influencers work together will change, then it’s going to be harder to find the right ones that understand that and are willing to work with you.
Josh Hadley 51:49
Yeah, makes a lot of sense. So Convomat Connect is basically there to help facilitate those relationships then, and turn what would normally be just like a regular influencer post, if you were to just DM somebody on Instagram, right, and turn that more into, I guess more of an ambassador type of relationship where it’s not one and done. The hope is that that continues on is is that the gist of what Convomat Connect is, compared to many of the other solutions?
Leo Sgovio 52:19
Yeah, exactly. And because of the integration that we have with these platforms, like we integrate with Shopify WooCommerce, Amazon itself, we have a lot of data then coming in. So we automate all the reporting. So you can see inside combo manatee, for example, when a campaign went live, or when a post went live on Instagram, you got more sales to your product. And a no long this kind of effect lasts for example is one day is it two days, and if they’re maybe their posts on Tik Tok went viral on Instagram. You can also see that, and you can see how much contribution that post on Instagram actually is having on your overall sales on Amazon. So this is the beauty of doing this through platform like that, like Convomat Connect, instead of trying to figure it out on your own because then the visibility is what allows you to learn and scale based on the data or the performance of specific campaigns.
Josh Hadley 53:19
Brilliant. Sounds like I’m signing up for Convomat, I’m sold.
Leo Sgovio 53:23
You’re welcome.
Josh Hadley 53:26
Leo, this has been an amazing conversation. Now, I love to leave the audience with three actionable takeaways from each episode. Here the three takeaways that I noted, Leo, let me know if you think I’m missing something. Number one, we talked about the a nine algorithm and this kind of cold start. And you talked about being able to, you know, create semantically relevant product listings to the top sellers in your product category. And so the first action item here is that you should create product targeting campaigns on those specific competitors. And my hack on that is that you should create single competitor campaigns, and then keep pouring the juice on the fire in terms of what is working well, where are you winning against certain competitors? Where are you not doing as well, and you can pull those back if they’re in single competitor ad campaigns. So that’s action item number one, turn that on from day one. Action Item number two, is Leo just dropped some huge knowledge that nobody else is talking about in terms of including your keywords into your images, instead of it being overly optimized for the customer’s experience. You know, he shared a great example instead of saying you know, keep your face looking younger and more healthy. Instead, add in an additional keyword phrase. Our Vitamin C Serum helps keep your face looking beautiful and healthy. they write, if you do that Amazon’s crawling all of that text. And I believe that that is going to help you rank even better than some of your competitors, especially if they’re not including those keywords in their images as well. And my third action item, there’s probably a million action items, I think, from this podcast episode. But my third one would be, you know, using search query performance, but not just letting all of that large amount of data stare at you in the face, utilizing that jungle ace tool that you talked about, and the Google sheets that they have available to actually get relevant information from it. I think that Amazon continues to push out so much data and us as sellers, we’re trying to figure out like, whoa, okay, how do I interpret everything and draw conclusions from all of this data? And so finding and identifying those tools that can help you clearly see correlations, or identify those opportunities from the data is super valuable. So that would be my third action item is to do that. My fourth one would be, you know, signing up for Convo mat connect as well, because that influencer campaign stuff is so important, and we just scratched the surface there. Leo, is there anything you think I’m missing in terms of an action item for our listeners?
Leo Sgovio 56:22
No, I think you covered pretty much everything, Josh, I would say, maybe it’s a good idea to release into the podcast and a couple of times, there’s no because we really covered a lot. And there are certain things that you may overlook, or maybe over here as you probably thriving or not paying attention. But if you do take a lot of notes, you know, there are some knowledge bombs that you can probably use in your business right away.
Josh Hadley 56:49
Totally agree. Good advice. Leo, I ask each guest the following three questions. So number one, what is your favorite book or most influential book that you’ve read? And why?
Leo Sgovio 57:02
Probably the rhetoric here but I think Rich Dad, Poor Dad and then Think and Grow Rich have definitely changed my life for sure.
Josh Hadley 57:09
Yeah, completely echo that sentiment Think and Grow Rich, that mindset stuff. So so yeah. Question number two here. What is your favorite productivity tool? Or maybe it’s a new software tool that you think is a game changer?
Leo Sgovio 57:28
It’s actually one of these extensions that I started on my app installed on my Mac and my iPhone, it’s called Be Focused. It’s like a timer that. So what do you do at the beginning of your day, let’s say you give it 10 Or five tasks that you want to accomplish or get done in the day. And then for each task, you assign how much time you think that should take you. And then when you start it, basically, you have this timer that is always in front of you. So what I do, I have to screen in front of me. And then on the side, I have my iPhone, which is displaying the timer. So I know that it’s taking me like 15 minutes left. So it just avoids distractions. Because sometimes what I do, I open new tabs and they get an email and I get a message on WhatsApp. So that really helps me to stay focused. And by the end of the day, I just got my five tasks done.
Josh Hadley 58:23
I love that. That is so important. One of my favorite books is The ONE Thing, and he talks a lot about like multitasking is a myth. Nobody can multitask, especially effectively, like your brain is only thinking about one thing at a time. And so I agree with what you just talked about that be focused and like do one thing, focus on it, remove all the other distractions. Completely echo what you’re saying there. All right. My last question here for you. Leo is who is somebody that you admire or respect the most in the e-commerce space that other people should be following and why?
Leo Sgovio 59:00
Josh, it’s hard to come up with one name, I think, you know, the people should just follow you or listen to your podcast, because this is probably where they’re gonna get most of their knowledge. Yeah, like I it’s hard to just mention one in the e-commerce space. You know, it’s such a vast and broad space, right? If you look at the Amazon ecosystem or Shopify, there’s a bunch of like, amazing people there like people like Ezra Firestone, say like that is always relevant with what it does and follows through and, but also very humble. And I get to learn a lot from him. But you know, for those listening, I will say, just make sure that you subscribe to this podcast because Josh, you’re inviting some of the smartest people in the industry, and they likely are going outside also the Amazon space. Because I had a lot of bright, bright minds out there that are doing just just as good. Just not in the Amazon community.
Josh Hadley 59:59
Yeah. Well, Leo, your your check for sharing those words is in the mail already. But, Leo, this has been amazing if people want to go learn more about Convomat, they want to go connect with you, they want to follow your journey, Leo, where should people go?
Leo Sgovio 1:00:19
I normally suggest to just reach out to me via LinkedIn. It’s one of the social media platforms that I’m spending most of my time on lately. Facebook is also another one. And yeah, my new website is almost ready: leosgovio.com. So that’s probably also one of the best ways to reach out to me.
Josh Hadley 1:00:37
Alright, spell your last name for everybody.
Leo Sgovio 1:00:40
S G O V I O
Josh Hadley 1:00:44
Alright, leosgovio.com. Go check it out. He’s also mentioned the tools that he’s going to share with us the ChatGPT prompts that he discussed earlier in this podcast, man, I mean, that would be another action item. So many gold nuggets just like you need to go back, put this on rewind. If you listen to it at 2x speed, you probably need to go back and listen to it at 1x speed, because so much knowledge has been shared today. So Leo, thanks for the wealth of wisdom you shared with us today,
Leo Sgovio 1:01:19
Josh, I appreciate it. It’s been a pleasure being here today. Thank you.
Outro 1:01:23
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