Josh Hadley 5:57
Yeah, Jamin, I think I love that you didn’t just do this on a whim, obviously, like you’ve grown through all of these experiences. And that’s where like your expertise becomes so valuable here. So I’ve got a two part question to really kick things off here. Why is a multi-channel strategy, so important to help a brand grow to the next level? And then the second question on that know is, how does that multi-channel strategy influence the overall valuation for that brand?
Jamin Arvig 6:28
Sure. It’s hard not to grow without multiple channels. So there’s so many reasons that multiple channels can help a company grow. So sure, it’s possible to grow without them, you’re doing it, we’ve done it, many can do that. But when you have more, when you have more wins at your back, it certainly helps. And when there are downturns, it may be necessary to break even art, or even grow at all, is to have those multiple channels. And in some of the reasons to important is that each channel has gotten more saturated, more expensive over time, when you look back, like just mentioning with Google SEO, and then with Google paid search, and then with some of the social channels and some of the different marketplace channels that developed over time, each one of these traffic sources or channels became more expensive over time. Originally, you know, it was the wild west, and it was a new open opportunity. And, and it was, you know, someone could figure out how to play in that pretty easily. Maybe even someone could find out a loophole where they could develop a whole lot of growth in that area. But then there becomes sophistication in that area. Other players move into that area, there’s competition, the platform itself develops ways to monetize, there’s different ways to have advertising in these channels. And those ads get more competition and the bids go up and prices go up for the ads. And so you can see little by little the prices in each of these channels gets much more expensive. And so to to, to exist to survive to thrive in any of these. One needs to be adding these channels. Yeah.
Josh Hadley 8:04
I love that. Now, on that note, Jamie and I love to ask this question like to the guests here is where do you see things going for brands that are solely focused on Amazon? Only right now? What do you think the future looks like for those type of brands over the next three to five years?
Jamin Arvig 8:22
It’s hard. I think. If a company is solely focused on Amazon, they are at risk of a number of things first, of course you’ve seen it but there’s knockoff considerations, there’s counterfeit considerations, there’s black hat considerations, fewer blackout Navy than in the past. But still, there’s all those considerations, when there is an Amazon only product or brand that grows it is very common that there are knock offs quickly. And then those those those knockoffs presents some erosion of margins if nothing else, and likely the erosion of revenue as well so if someone is solely focused on Amazon, it does become hard they need to be very very good at product development and to be good at of course good at the blocking and tackling good at sourcing all those types of things but good at product development so they can keep launching new products and not be dependent on those that they got them where they are. So I think those are some of the things that are necessary to to survive on on the channel like Amazon in the future if you’re focused on that if you’re if you’re looking at how can you how can you go beyond that it becomes a lot more impactful a lot easier because you can you can grow on the other channels and your brand awareness grows and so many other things become possible and as you say, looking forward for four years I mean, we’re running into challenges like with the economy we’re we’ve got recession fears that are that are growing and the market has already changed dramatically over the last year I suppose right with with aggregators like THRASS, SEO that did a phenomenal job bringing brands into their into their ecosystem, but then during that Land Grab, there were challenges and and there were, there were reasons to pull back. And so the valuations and a lot for a lot of those Amazon brands went down too. So I’m throwing a lot out here. But I think the point is that to grow your business, and to improve your valuation, you can, you can really do better by diversifying into more channels, and strengthening each of the channels, but really trying to build a brand and not just build a product listing.
Josh Hadley 10:32
Yeah, I think that that is super important. And, you know, I think the important thing that you’re talking about here is you’re not saying neglect Amazon, run away from Amazon, what you’re saying is, hey, keep doing what you’re doing on Amazon to succeed, right? Get better with your product development continue to come out on Amazon, right? That’s right,
Jamin Arvig 10:55
I absolutely have Amazon is a key channel and will be continued to be a key challenge. There needs to be a strategy in Amazon, there also needs to be strategy in these other channels. And the strategies might be completely different. One strategy for one channel might be to grow revenue, another channel might be to bring profit, another channel might be to get eyeballs and brand awareness through another channel might be to get profit to fund one of the other channels, or to drive revenue to bring the cost down for the product. There’s lots of ways to play this, but you want to have a holistic strategy that brings all these strategies together. Yeah, no,
Josh Hadley 11:32
That makes a lot of sense. And so I’m sold on the fact that it’s important to stay ahead of the game and go to where the puck, you know, skate to where the puck is going here. And that multi channel distribution, I think becomes even more important down the road. So my question to you Jamin is like, as we look into 2024 and beyond, you know, what are brands doing to evaluate all the different multi channel fulfillment, or distribution channels that they could get themselves into? Because the options are ultimately endless. Right? So how do you how does a brand prioritize? This is the next channel I should focus on? Is it retail? Is it you know, no, I need to actually get into more e-commerce channels or even international expansion? How does the brand kind of make that decision and prioritize correctly?
Jamin Arvig 11:37
It’s a big question. And so I’ll probably have a fairly big answer. And we can drill down into it as would be helpful for you. But yeah, I think you’re absolutely right, companies are looking at this at the world right now and saying, Hi, now there’s a lot of risk in my business, I want to have predictable profits that that grow, that are sustainable, I need, I need diversification, I need to move into new channels. I also am concerned about my valuation, I want to drive the valuation up with more brand awareness, more impressions across the channels. And so what do I do? How do I prioritize those channels? I think you said it very well. And, and one of the things to consider is the complexities of each of these channels. And so I would start there, really understanding your business and the complexities of some of the new channels that you’re considering. So for example, complexities would include infrastructure. Your current business has some integrations between Amazon and maybe you’ve got an ERP, maybe you don’t. So if it’s an Amazon business only, you may not even have need to have a sophisticated ERP system. But you do have some integrations. Now if you get more complex, you are definitely going to need a solid ERP system, you’re going to need integrations to that ERP, ERP system with all of these channels that you’re talking about. You need integrations into fulfillment with your own warehouse, you know, with other warehousing, there’s so there’s a lot of infrastructure that needs to be built. If it’s not already there. Digging deeper into tech, you’ve the data becomes much more complicated to write, you’ve got dimensions to the data. It’s not just one channel, you’ve got lots of channels. So you’ve got to look at the profitability by SKU by order by channel. So there’s more dimensions to consider. And then, in terms of the fulfillment, we’ve got so many complications there too. If you’re an FBA seller, things can be pretty simple. It’s not as easy. It’s challenging, but it’s simple in the sense that you’ve got one, one network for your fulfillment. So if you’re doing multi-channel, you need to have fulfillment for other channels. You could use Amazon’s multi-channel fulfillment network, but even that is, has its limitations. But if you’re looking at your own DTC site, if you’re looking at other marketplace channels that compete with Amazon, if you’re looking at if you’re looking at b2b, and then some of those channels, you’ve got a lot of additional integrations maybe SPS commerce commerce hub, you’ve got, you’ve got other opportunities to fulfill with three PL or your own way warehouses. So, there’s a lot of complexities in the infrastructure, the tech, the fulfillment, the marketing capabilities, which are different. So before if someone gets too excited, they want to look realistically at what they have today, and how that could change. And that’s just one consideration is the complexities of the market, you also have to look at the many other considerations of what, what your business is good at, what your key strengths are, what the what the product differentiators are, and so forth. I can go into more details if you want, but I’ll stop for now. Yeah,
Josh Hadley 15:36
I love that you kind of lead with the complexity of each channel, right? And kind of going down the pecking order of how complicated is it to get into retail versus, you know, international expansion into Amazon, Canada, right? Or just US Walmart online sales, right? And taking an inventory of like, what are your current strengths? And how are things set up? So Jamie, and I’ll use this as an example to drill down further here. And we’ll love to kind of get your thought process because you have so much experience. Let’s take a hypothetical like Amazon seller, even our brand considered, we’re doing eight figures here on Amazon, us. Everything is run through FBA. Everything is right. So as I look at all the different channels that we could get ourselves into what you know, and here’s kind of the next question with that is, obviously we want to find the levers that have the least amount of effort but can provide an outsized return for us, right, the biggest return on investment. So with that being said, a US-based Amazon seller, that’s 100% FBA right now, what are the channel prioritizations, that you would kind of lay out to say, this is going to be kind of like your least complicated channels that I would attack first. And then this is kind of, you know, what I would then start to ramp up to, that’s going to require additional work and infrastructure before you can approach these phases?
Jamin Arvig 17:05
Sure. Yeah, I think that is the first step to consider is building the list of the top channels that should be considered and evaluated. And if a company is solely on Amazon, and solely using FBA, like you say, in that scenario, I think it’s, it’s pretty natural to look at other Amazon geographies right there, it’s not as big a lift to do that, in many ways, in certain ways, with with the administrative changes and taxes and all that kind of thing. Of course, there is something some bit of work there. But that is an easier lift than a completely new channel. Usually, another common one is Walmart, you know, another mass type of retail channel, online where we’re a company can use similar strategies. Now, I would say that those are maybe the top obvious ones to look at. But then there’s a whole host of others that actually may make more sense for you. Then those are the obvious ones. But you know, DTC building a website, making sure you’ve got some synergy between your website and Amazon and the other channels that you’re looking at, is always important, you have to look at expanding that as a top opportunity for sure. There’s other product specific marketplaces too if you’re in goods that would be sold as hardware goods or home goods, you’ve probably looking at Home Depot and Lowe’s and maybe house and Wayfair if you’re in things like furniture. So there’s product specific marketplaces that if grown electronics were electronics marketplaces as well, for example, there’s others too. So you want to think about what is that list first, and then you can start digging into that list. And maybe the obvious ones are true for you. Maybe they aren’t. But part of the ways to figure that out is to really dig deep in into analyzing the the market intelligence of a channel. And what does that mean that it’s looking at things like the competitive landscape as an example? Are there products like yours? Does the audience on those channels want products like yours? And how competitive is it? Is there a big Is there a lot of whitespace in that particular channel and need? Where people are actually searching for that type of project? If so, great. That’s a great opportunity, and that should be prioritized. Are there? And then also, with each of these channels? What are the issues with them that would prevent them from being a low lift? Are there massive new capabilities that are required to do that require new fulfillment capabilities or new technical capabilities or, like we’re talking about earlier, some completely different marketing capabilities. So what is required to make this possible, what kind of team changes would need to happen? So those are some of the considerations and then and then thinking too, about profitability? So if you’re, if you’ve got a list of these channels, and you’re starting to prioritize them, based on the opportunity Based on the complexity in terms of team, you can then look at to the profitability likelihood of each of these what of course, what is the revenue capability? What is the profitability, realistic outcome that would happen? Each of these channels has different profitability, unit economic considerations. So what are the ads expectation, ad price expectation or commission expectation or freight expectation? And so really what is the total profitability to expect and there’s also cash impact considerations to some of these channels paid differently than others. So if you’re looking at your business holistically, you’re thinking about all things with financial objectives with cash objectives, and so forth. So, there’s a lot that goes into that it’s a big analysis, as you’re talking about earlier with, with strategy audits. I mean, this is a big project to think about, how do I prioritize these channel opportunities, but it can be done and it must be done?
Josh Hadley 20:59
Yeah, I love the way you kind of walked through that process and the thought process of, you know, hey, look at you know, even keyword volume, look at the competitive landscape, look at what your profitability could be. I mean, there’s so much to consider, and also like, assign a number to that amount of complexity that would be required for that channel. So I love that mind map that you just kind of laid out there. Jamin. Another follow up question on that? No, is, you know, I think, ideally, right, if you’re, I love to use the fishing analogy, if you’re out fishing, and you’re trying to figure out, you know, what the Fit how to catch the most fish, you want to see which bait is working the best, right? And so ideally, if you could cast out five different polls with five different types of bait, you can see what’s working and, and double down and keep doing what’s working. And so my question would be this, the analogy would be, how can I, you know, maybe take baby steps, where I am maybe casting a wide net, and putting in Miss multiple fishing poles, to see which type of you know, channel could work best for me, if, you know, we can do as much data analyzation as we want. But at the end of the day, you just got to move forward and actually test it out and see what the market is going to respond. Right? So the question is, how do you take some baby steps to enter some of these new markets when you are relatively new, and this is kind of a new venture for you?
Jamin Arvig 22:28
I love the question. You’re an entrepreneur, and you’re thinking like an entrepreneur, and you’re thinking about how to grow and how to test fast and fail fast and, and find success where you can and then and then you can invest much more right into the, that’s the right way of thinking about it. And, and you want to you need to do that. And so I think, again, you don’t short circuit, any of the steps I just laid out, you might you might not do the most robust McKinsey level study, but you’re going to have those considerations that are laid out. And then you can start testing them and you pick the top 345, like you’re saying, and you start you start testing them, I think it’s always good to start with a few products on all of your products, and figure out what what is the product strategy for them. And in some cases, you may just want to start with your top 10 products, for example, your to your top products, whatever that is, maybe your 8020 split, where your where your products are much more impactful on Amazon and assume those would be impactful on other channels. That’s not always the right strategy, though. And some sometimes you want different products in different channels, for example, target to do something there, it really helps to have different products and unique products to get approved. So you want to come up with product strategy as well. And then you can have you test with a limited number of products in these channels. You can test what you have to understand what the expectation is for advertising. And what is a realistic test. Because you don’t want to have a you don’t want to throw fit five fishing poles out with no bait or with the wrong bait, you know, that’s gonna be a waste. And then you look at the bowls, and you see that there’s no fish on those and you think, Oh, that one, that channel is not for me, well, maybe it is for you. But it was a poor test, right? So you want to make sure you’ve got the right test for each of these the right types of product, the right types of pricing strategy, the right types of advertising strategy, and then you can get it out there. I think this is a reason for a company like e-commerce to exist because it’s hard to go after all of these. So you know, it’s helpful these a partner that is in these channels that has expertise in the channels and capabilities in the channels that can quickly test some of these things for you. And then you can see what makes sense and not and then you can have your partner drill into those much more if you want and grow the ones that are working or you can even over time, bring those in house. So I think that’s probably a general way of of looking at it, you know, having that smaller, more concise product list that you’re testing. You define a budget for the test where you’re willing to lose money on the advertising or have discounts or whatever it is, and then you bring people in that can help you perform it inappropriate test, a real test where you can walk away and know that yes or no? And is this the right channel? And and? And if it is, how do I win in that channel? Is it with different types of products? Is it with a different type of strategy? So, hopefully that can help people kind of get their feet wet. Yeah,
Josh Hadley 25:26
I love that I really liked the mindset shift of like, you don’t have to take all of your products, right? If you have a large SKU number like we have, don’t get overwhelmed with I’ve got to figure out my plan for 1000 skews, figure out like, alright, which are my top ones. And let’s really focus in on those. And let’s start there. That’s much more of a bite-sized chunk that I could actually handle.
Jamin Arvig 25:49
And we haven’t talked about brick and mortar. I know you’re getting to that one.
Josh Hadley 25:52
That’s my exact next question was, at which point do you determine like, in your experience? Like, is there a specific point where you see brick and mortar being a good option for brands? Or is it just specific for every single brand, and there’s no real rule of thumb here,
Jamin Arvig 26:10
I think before someone considers brick and mortar, if they’re an Amazon, native business, or E commerce native business, they need to understand that it is a completely different space. You know, if you’re Amazon only you look at DTC and you think man, it’s a different world, I can’t do that. Or if you’re DTC only think Amazon’s a different world that can’t do that. And the same is true for for a brick and mortar, it is a different world. And but you can do it. If you’ve got a strategy, if you’ve got partners, if you’ve got a team that can help you get there. So when does it make sense to consider brick and mortar, I think you need to have a product that has been proven in your channel, you need to have some type of proof that the dot product works and social proof you’ve got you’ve got good volume, you’ve got good reviews you’ve got you’ve got good exposure, you’ve got eyeballs on on this product, maybe there’s not huge brand awareness in the in the geography, but at least you’ve got proof that this product can work. And I think if you’ve got to have at some point, either A, you either already have things like packaging and collateral and those types of things, or you’re willing to go invest in those things. If you’ve got packaging, the packaging strategy on your Amazon product, and you might hopefully do that Patreon strategy might be similar to your brick and mortar packs, your strategy might be a little different. But it that is one thing to consider. We can drill into that if you want. There’s other collateral that needs to be designed as well. But a lot of those things can be done after you decide to test out brick and mortar. The first though you just need to make sure you’ve got a product that has social proof on it in your channels. And you want to make sure that your product matters in the brick and mortar channels, it’s different than the others. It’s needed. There’s some demand for so you can do some investigation on that and and and look at those markets. If it’s a one of the majors or you know, mass merchandise, like Walmart, you can see what they’re selling. And if there’s a place for you, if maybe you’re looking at getting in smaller stores that’s more diversified. And maybe there’s a need and smaller boutique shops or everything in between the category specific shops but make sure there’s some differentiation, that you can go to the buyers and show that yeah, I’ve got a great product great bread, you need this in your store. So I think those are some of the early things to look at. But yeah, that first question is: Am I ready for retail? And you ask the right question that people should be asking I think so. Brands 10x helps with this kind of thing to help people understand are they ready for retail? And then if so that they can they can take a baby step or a bigger step into that baby step might be getting educated getting an understanding what are the opportunities and so there’s education opportunities to understand what is required for all these things. And to actually do it the education can help people understand here is exactly how you get your packaging set up exactly how you get your sell sheets, exactly how you find the buyers and how you talk to the buyers in these in these brick and mortar stores. So I think that can be helpful to to get people educated and if they if they want help to have a team that has expertise they can actually go sell the product into brick and mortar than they then they bring that in the Branston X does that or other companies do that as well to to help people build a new team in a new area and it doesn’t have to be a set of employees. It can be contractors, again a way to 21st very, very small to make sure there is some product market fit and some momentum before testing more heavily. Yeah,
Josh Hadley 29:52
I love that and that we could take the entire rest of the podcast and just drill into brick and mortar retail they because there is so much that goes into that. But as we’re running up on time here, Jamin, I’m curious, if you have maybe a couple of case studies that you could share with us of, you know, maybe native Amazon brands that have been able to successfully scale and grow and take things to the next level by implementing this kind of multi channel approach to their business.
Jamin Arvig 30:23
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I can share some now or if you want some digital case studies to share afterwards, that’s fine as well with more detail. But you know, with, with some brands, there’s a brand Lumi World that was focused Amazon only, and then they moved to, in store and to have more business in store now than the head on Amazon. So that’s one example. And, and in the now they’re in the process of taking advantage of the next, the next multichannel opportunity, which is buy with prime. And I don’t know if you had that on your, on your list of questions, but I think it’s a great, a great thing for people to consider when they’re wanting to be multi channel and to buy with prime is in Amazon, opportunity to to allow people on a direct consumer site to click a button where they can a customer can buy with with the prime account. So it’s very easy for the customer. And as a result, there’s, they’re able to have a 25% or more typically conversion rate lift on their direct to consumer sites. So that’s huge. If you can have that kind of left. And then you can spend more money on advertising more profitably. So. And the reason for this is, again, they’ve got that they’ve got that ease of use with that with that buy with prime button. But it also has the branding behind it, the trust behind it. The fulfillment network behind it, most of all, probably to the customer knows that getting that product very quickly. And so we’ve done a lot with this. I’m a huge proponent of this, there’s pros and cons trust me and I can talk about this in great detail too. But with the right strategy, by with prime can be tremendously helpful for a direct consumer or an Amazon brand that’s trying to move to direct to consumer, by the way.
Josh Hadley 32:11
Yeah, I love that. Any other case studies?
Jamin Arvig 32:15
I think another one that comes to mind is in the health health space. The tier one is a brand that started on direct to consumer went to Amazon, and then went brick and mortar and so that their products have had to shift based on the channel a bit. It’s not 100% overlap and all the products in each of the channels. So we’ve had to have a product specific strategy. But the ability to move into the different categories has been tremendously helpful in building and building not just revenue, but brand awareness that helps all of the channels. So all of the channels become more profitable and have better conversion rates, because the brand exists in multiple channels. Yeah,
Josh Hadley 33:01
I love that. Now Jamin, I love to leave the audience with three actionable takeaways from each episode. There are so many things that we talked about. And we could have dug deeper into many of these topics. But here are some three actionable takeaways that I think our listeners could use going forward. Let me know if you think I’m missing something here. So action item number one is, the first thing that a branch should be doing is creating a list of all the different marketplaces or channels that they could envision selling their product into. Right, you’ve got Walmart, you’ve got Etsy, you’ve got Wayfair target.com, like the list goes on and on. But I think the important thing here is like list, actually create a list of each of these, and then go back, hit rewind, listen to what Jamin talked about, of here, the different like things you need to consider for each of these channels. You know, what’s the amount of search volume being done for that channel for that your specific product? What’s the competition landscape look like for your product on that channel? In addition to that, what additional complexities may be required? Do you have to change your product packaging? Do you have to change the way your logistics work? Do you have to hire team members to support this, and assign a value to each of those, and then prioritize obviously, starting with the least complicated, but producing the highest return on investment first, and go from there. So that would be action item number one is create that list and score those different areas that we talked about. Action Item Number two, I think is one of the crucial things here is start first with your best selling products. And don’t get overwhelmed especially if you have a large SKU count. Start with a few take that initial baby step that’s going to be much more manageable to take that next action. And then finally, action item number three is to partner with experts like yourself, people and guides and mentors that have been there done that, that can help you see around those, those blind curves that you’re about to come around that you don’t know what you’re about to experience yet, but somebody else does, you will go faster, you’ll make better decisions. If you have somebody like that in your back pocket. All too often I think entrepreneurs have the mentality, which can be good, but also bad at the same token of I can hustle, I can grind this, I can learn this and do this myself. Sometimes your time is better utilized, focused on the future vision of the business, and allowing other experts to come in and help guide the formation of that vision. Jamin, is there anything else that you would add to these action items here for our listeners,
Jamin Arvig 35:52
I think you said it well. And you know, happy to be a resource as well. That’s why I’m here trying to spread the word and the importance of multi-channel. So if anyone is overwhelmed or wondering if multi channel fits for them, or what the next steps are, feel free to reach out to AI commerce and some others can have a conversation you may qualify for of either a quick audit to kind of think through the the next steps, it’d be easy for you or also a more in depth free audit as well to understand how you can win and how you can prioritize and how you can execute in these new channels. And I think it does help to talk to experts. And even on the example with Buy with Prime, we’ve got developed special relationships with Amazon. So we get lots of Amazon reps that help us and our brands really get to the next level with constraints that come up and customized strategies and ways to make sure those strategies to actually work. So happy to be a resource and friend in this area.
Josh Hadley 36:56
Awesome. So definitely check out aicommerce.com For people in fortuitous naming, by the way of aiCommerce and getting that domain much earlier than the whole AI boom. Jamin, real quick here, I like to ask each guest the three following questions. So let’s start with number one, what’s been the most influential book that you’ve read and why?
Jamin Arvig 37:18
One of the books and theories that I’ve prescribed to is the Entrepreneurial Operating System and Scaling Up. They’re two different things, but very, very similar. And the books behind each of those are tremendously helpful. So I know a lot of people know these now. But if you don’t highly encourage you to look into them or get someone to help you implement them. But the so Traction is the book with Entrepreneurial Operating System. And then with the scaling up philosophy that the book is called Scaling Up. And it just really helps people have an operating system for managing and growing the business. And I’m such a believer with Brands 10X, actually, we have programs to help people do this, to actually implement these things into their business. They’re very helpful. I wish I would have done it earlier.
Yeah, those are great books. I would definitely echo what you said there. Question number two is what is a your favorite productivity tool or software that you’ve recently been using that you think is a game changer? Well, of course, everyone’s experimenting with ChatGPT, right. So I’m using that a lot. Trying to integrate that into other tools too, like Gmail, for example, trying to have things that can be automatically written or updated with that. So I think there’s a lot of AI tools that are that are quite powerful right now that that I’m using. And that’s probably the the obvious one that that’s been helpful.
Josh Hadley 38:40
Do you have a favorite AI tool at this point outside of ChatGPT?
Jamin Arvig 38:45
It’s changing quickly. So I don’t think any of that I can, can really vouch for it. It’s funny, a lot of these tools are, you know, 72 hours old or something like that, right. But they’re developing and changing very quickly. All right, last
Josh Hadley 38:58
but not least, who is somebody that you admire or respect the most in the e-commerce space that other people should be following and why?
Jamin Arvig 39:05
But I think a leader in the space that I can mention is in the aggregator space. We talked about them already the Thrasio co-founded by Carlos Cashman. I think he’s phenomenal at understanding channel. Distribution and ways two ways two ways to grow and get into more channels. And, and specifically, or more generally, I guess, just business, how one can leverage and scale businesses. So I think he’s been very impactful, and I encourage anyone to keep track of him.
Josh Hadley 39:44
Awesome. Jamin great insights today. Thank you so much for sharing your wealth and wealth of knowledge and wisdom with us all today.
Jamin Arvig 39:52
Happy to be with you. Thanks, Josh.
Outro 39:55
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