Josh Hadley 5:55

I think that is so true. I mean, it takes days and months just to dissect the, you know, the Amazon terms and conditions. And they’re always change. I mean, it the marketplace has has evolved drastically over the last 10 years. And again, congrats on, you know, rolling up there to Avenue 7 Media, super exciting and inspiring journey. I think the most important thing that I want our listeners to know here is that you’ve been doing consulting, and as was mentioned, in your bio, with over 200 Different companies, you’ve been able to peek under the hood of over 200 Different companies. So you have a vast experience of what you’ve seen gone on in the Amazon space. And like you said, for yourself, you saw the same things, like there’s only a few things you can actually do to move the needle on Amazon, and they’re very replicable for the most part. Yeah. And so I think that’s what our audience is going to be excited to hear from you. Because the traditional seller, like myself, I have one brand. And I’ve been my baby, and I know the needs of this, right. But I’ve never gotten into supplements, for example, right? I don’t know that. So with that being said, Shannon, I know we’re gonna be talking about how to build, grow and protect your brand. Maybe we just jump straight into it. But anything else you want to preface with, like, the fact that you’ve peeked under the hood of 200 different Amazon brands?

Shannon Roddy 7:23

Yeah, yeah, I mean, at this point has probably grown exponentially, with with my time at Avenue 7. But, you know, I was listening to a talk last week by a business leader. And he talked about this idea of intuition. And when you sort of have this intuitive sense about something, he said, it’s not like an instinct, it’s actually informed subconscious. So having, you know, worked with all of these hundreds of brands over the last 10 years, it sort of informed my subconscious where I can see a listing and know immediately the seven things that they need to do to optimize it, tweak it make it better. You know, same thing with advertising. Sometimes it’s more complicated, you know, sometimes it requires more work. Sometimes you’re making educated guesses, but, but that’s been a lot of fun to use that intuition and say, you know, I sort of accumulate all this knowledge, and let’s, you know, train our team to, you know, make these choices, because they’re already incredibly well equipped. But we’re always pushing the envelope in terms of making things better. The principle that I want to lay out before we get in is, is a paradigm that I call coaches, players and fans. And it’s based upon this idea that in life, for anything we do, there’s these different roles, sort of these three distinct roles, you know, we have Superbowl coming up, it’s like, okay, in a Super Bowl game, you’ve got the coaches who are sort of orchestrating everything, you’ve got the players on the field who are actually playing the game, and you have the fans in the stadiums, and you know, the TV screens at home, watching the game. And sometimes what happens in life, Josh, is we we get confused between being a fan. And thinking that because we enjoy being a fan, we’d be a good player, right? How many people say, I want to join the NBA? Because I want to play? It’s like, do you want to wake up at 430 every morning and work out? And you know, spend all this time in the road? It’s like, well, no, but I just I liked the idea. But it’s because we enjoy being a fan that we think playing would be as much fun. And you know, for me, the revelation was in high school, I want to be an actor. And I took some acting lessons. And I tried out for a bunch of plays with my best friend, he would get a callback. And then he would get the part and I wouldn’t even get a callback. And what I realized in those situations was I love the idea of acting, but I wasn’t good at it. But what I loved was developing scripts as a producer that other people could act in and I wound up getting into film production and, you know, went to Hollywood and worked in LA and you know, got a chance to work with Spielberg and all these amazing people. And so there’s this element of understanding where do you fit? And so for me, what I’ve discovered over the last 10 years is, well there are players who are great at creating and launching and growing brands and businesses, that’s not something I’m great at as a player, I have a product that I sell on Amazon. So in the last 10 years, I’m doing a little bit of product development and growing. But where I really shine is my ability to coach. And if you think about it in a historical context, most of the best players don’t make great coaches. And most of the great coaches were not very good players, they were mediocre, at best. They are different skill sets. And there’s this sort of philosophy that we hold as a society that those who can’t do teach. And it’s sort of a diminished statement of saying that those who do the players are the key to the game. And the people who can’t do they teach they coach, their secondary, no great championship team has ever won a championship without a great coach, you know, both are equally valuable. And if you switch that it’s equally true. The best coaches, you know, those who can’t coach play, you know, those who can’t coach do and so. So there’s this element where I discovered, I’m a better coach than a player when it comes to business. And I’m great at helping brands take it to the next level and taking what they’ve built, and explaining things in a way that makes sense to them. And, you know, Tim Ferriss, you know, has this concept that he calls intrinsic expertise, what experts do, but fail to teach. And I think it just rhymes by coincidence, I don’t think he intended that. But the idea is very simple. In some cases, those who are great at business are great at filmmaking or whatever, they’re not great at teaching it because it’s not their skill set. But to there’s probably things that they do that they’re not aware that they do. And if they were told to teach it, they would leave it out, because they didn’t even know that they were doing it. And so we’ve seen a lot of these masterclass, like, go learn business, you know, from you know, Sara Blakely, or go learn how to be a director from you know, Martin Scorsese, who’s to say that those are the great courses, because even if they’re good at doing them, they might not be the best at teaching them. So for me, I found my home as an educator, I get very passionate about discovering principles, over tactics and strategies, they’re all important. But a principle for me, I define as a truth that you can leverage and the truth that you can leverage is true over time, regardless of who you are, or where you are. And principles tend to be much more foundational, and you know, Evergreen than a tactic or a Strategy that I could share in the podcast, that’s going to be outdated next month, when Amazon updates their terms of service. So we’ll be focusing, focusing a lot on principles. And you’ll hear me tell a lot of stories about the clients that I’ve worked with. But it’s one of the reasons why most of the stories will be about my clients and their brands or companies as opposed to my own because I found my home as a coach, on the sidelines, mapping the game plan as opposed to being on the field.

Josh Hadley 12:47

Yeah, I love that. And I love that analogy. I mean, I’m a big sports guy myself. And so that is so true that, you know, it’s more rare for a player to end up becoming a coach, right? I think you’ve seen that in the NBA, how many times has a player moved to a coach, and then all of a sudden, like, they’re just not even coaching anymore? Right? Because it just didn’t work out. And so I like that that’s a good mindset shift for people to take into consideration. Because teaching is a skill in and of itself. So Shannon, as we tee you up here. What are those principles that you have learned from consulting with over hundreds of different Amazon brands that are going to allow somebody to move from a being a seven figure seller to just skyrocket to eight figures and beyond?

Shannon Roddy 13:37

Yeah, so the first part is, you know, you have to build a great brand. And, you know, when I created Marketplace Seller Courses, I mean, I think even that you can see, it’s the most generic bland brand name ever. And it’s just because the website domain was available, right? You know, if I was smart, I would call it something, you know, savvy. But it was like, again, that sort of, you know, lack of entrepreneurial spirit, I guess, you know, it’s just sort of went with a generic brand name. But, but what I discovered, and this is primarily engagement with clients and customers through social media, which is sort of the, it’s sort of the first point of contact that I think a lot of customers have with the brand is through social is that authenticity builds trust, but personality creates engagement. And when I first created marketplace, seller courses, I didn’t even have my photo on the website, and even my name, right, I didn’t want people to even know me, I kind of wanted to think, you know, people think it was a big company with a lot of people. And I didn’t kind of want to my name and face out there. And all of my posts that I did were very sort of generic and bland and tried to be informative and helpful. And it took me hiring a social media company and spend about 12 grand over a year period of them also doing very generic bland stock photo post, which got no engagement to the point where I just said, You know what, screw it. I’m just going to do my own. And I’m going to I’m going to show me because I have put personality, anybody who needs me will probably say, yeah, you’ve got some personality. And I had always felt like people wanted and needed me to be professional for them to trust me. And so I need to put on this era of being professional and being proper and all of these things. The problem was, there was no engagement there. And so it’s kind of like, you know, you, you pull off the mask and say, This is who I really am, this is what I believe this is what I care about. And all of a sudden, overnight engagement, you know, I was willing to take a stand, because I think in the back of my mind, Josh, I thought, if I say what I really think some clients will be ticked off, and they won’t want to sign with me. And the hurdle I had to get over was they weren’t going to sign with me anyways. So why don’t you go out, express who you are, find those who believe what you believe, right? Simon Sinek start with why and an earning gain the trust and the recognition and engagement from your potential clients. And so, you know, there are brands that have what I call sort of a chief culture architect, you know, Apple being the number one with Steve Jobs being the culture architect, right, you got Southwest Airlines, Herb Kelleher who passed away a few years ago, he was the chief culture architect at Southwest. I mean, they were just zany and kooky and did things differently. You look at Zappos and Tony Shea, who also sadly passed away a few years ago, you know, a culture that was, you know, organized around this idea of customer service. You know, those cultures outlast the, the founder, right? They outlast the culture architect, because it gets embedded into who they hire, who they fire, who they keep on how you maintain them retain that culture. And, you know, just to give you an example, I’m taking a Southwest Airlines flight back, I think it was last year from Prosper Show. And they found out that a girl was heading to I think Memphis for her bridesmaid, whatever, whatever bridesmaids do before the fourth actual wedding. They said, Okay, so and so and il 33 is going to be surprising. They handed out napkins, and had everybody write down some marriage advice on the napkin in hand them back up. And then out of coffee stirs and napkins, they made a veil for her. And I kid you not they had her parade down the aisle where they played here comes the bride over the intercom. It was wonderful is brilliant people are pulling out their phones and taking pictures. It was It happened a year ago, it was the most memorable experience I’ve ever had on a flight that came as a direct result of the culture of the brand. Right? You can be authentic all day, and you should be it builds trust. But without personality, there’s no engagement. Apple doesn’t just create, you know, Computer Products, or music products or software, what they create are tools that allow people to change the world make a dent in the universe, right? It’s bigger than themselves. And so if you want to build a great brand, you have to stand for something bigger than yourself. And you have to stand for something bigger than the bottom line. So there are companies out there, there’s private labels, there’s brand owners who say we want to, you know, we want to sell this product in Amazon, it’s going to be a good product, we’re gonna have a logo, and a brand guide. That’s not your brand, right? Those are depictions of your brand. They’re elements of your brand. Your brand is what you stand for your values, and the personality that comes through that brand and that engagement. And so people who say I’m just going to sell this commoditized product under this brand name, that’s not a brand, right? You are going to have a very difficult time going from seven to eight figures and beyond without building something that’s meaningful. And that’s really sort of encapsulates the first sort of the first principle.

Josh Hadley 18:39

I love that. You said you had a quote at the very beginning that I thought was profound. I think it was the authenticity builds trust, right. And personality builds what creates engagement creates engagement. Yeah,

Shannon Roddy 18:54

my personality, people don’t have anything to grab, you know, to grasp on to, you know, and again, you look at Sara Blakely, of Spanx, you know, she has a great job, she does a great job, putting her personality into the brand and infusing it with her personality and creating that brand personality that allows people to engage with it something that’s fun, that’s exciting. That’s, you know, exciting to be a part of, and that’s what brand building is about.

Josh Hadley 19:17

Yeah. So if authenticity builds trust for a brand, and then the personality creates engagement. How have you seen e commerce sellers best create that type of brand, through Amazon detail pages through their images through their videos. Can you share any examples that way?

Shannon Roddy 19:39

Yeah, absolutely. Number one, tell your brand story. And you know, from a Strategy and tactics standpoint, Amazon now is offering premium A plus content. Yes, if it’s done well, it’s been shown to convert twice as good as a plus content. They have a thing called the brand story, but it’s more than just that section. Right? So that’s a technical place where you can share your brand story. But the first line is really share your brand’s story through your listings, right? You know, and I’ve had these these calls with clients and they say, Oh, we are really about giving back. And our products are sustainable and recyclable. And it’s made from renewable materials. I’m like, it doesn’t say that anywhere in the listing, right? It doesn’t show that in any of the product images, right? It may say it somewhere in a lowercase font somewhere at the bottom of an image. I’m like, what you want to show us a lifestyle image of the earth and put in large, bold letters. We care, right, we give back right? There’s this element of you know, that I learned from film production, which is show don’t tell. Right? So a lot of people the natural inclination is I’m just going to tell you, show show show show. We’re a visual society, images sell. I think the stats are something like 70 80% of people who start swiping through those images on level will swipe through the entire carousel, use those to tell your story. Jason voice our founder and CEO at Avenue 7 co authored a book with Rick’s Azeri. Really one of the originators of sort of the DTC, you know, movement with Direct TV ads, and he launched companies like GoPro and oxy clean and the George Foreman grill, and Jason and Rick got together and wrote this book, where they shared these principles and ideas where Rick is like, look, you’ve got to communicate what people really want. You’ve got to tap into their desires, forget the technical specifications of the product, it’s important, but it’s less important than can noting this element that your life will be better off after you purchase this product. And I think that’s what we focus on at Avenue 7 Media is how do we create our clients listings, our product detail pages, the a plus content, the storefront in a visually appealing way that calls out and highlights our values, our propositions, our unique selling propositions, and philosophy. So selling points value propositions, and the benefits of the you know, the product that the customer is going to leave with once they add it to cart and purchase. So for me, it’s really about telling that whole story, and doing it in a visual way, sort of as a practical takeaway. And same thing for videos, you can do the same thing, have a 32nd clip that says, here’s why I created this brand, right? Give people some emotional engagement into the why behind the what, because that’s what sort of gets them to the next level. Once a customer has the ability to emotionally engage with the brand. It changes everything. price parity, it doesn’t go off the wind out the window, but it decreases significantly. And people aren’t going well. I could buy your product or this sort of cheap knockoff, but I think I’m gonna buy yours because I care about what you care about. And I like your story. There’s something about that. And that’s the personality, and that’s the engagement piece.

Josh Hadley 22:57

I like that. And you know, I think to that point, I think there’s many sellers that honestly, their main reason for starting the business is I wanted to start a side hustle and I wanted to make make income for my family, right? Sure. So in those cases, right, I think everybody always hears the, like the Zappos story where it’s like, hey, buy one, and we’ll give one away, right? Like there’s or that’s TOMS Shoes, right? Yeah. With Tom’s and there’s a lot of like sustainability movement out there. But I would say the majority of the brands, and especially those listening, probably don’t have those social missions to back them up. So in that case, what would be your recommendation Shannon, where it’s like, honestly, I’m just telling you, I started this business to make money. And I found that this was a really profitable niche on Amazon. That’s my story, right? You’re not gonna say that. But what is your recommendation for somebody? Yeah, in terms of creating that type of brand story?

Shannon Roddy 23:59

It’s a good question. And, you know, if you look at Zappos as an example, you know, again, Tony Shea, and a couple of his co founders and the partners, they acquired the company were actually early investors in the company, and it was just about selling shoes online. And it wasn’t till three or four years into the business, where they were sitting down, and they were talking one day, and he says, You know what, we upgraded somebody to free overnight shipping the other day, and they really loved it. And they wrote back an email and said, Thank you so much. It was totally unexpected. I wasn’t, you know, expecting that. I love that I’m going to shop from Zappos next time I need anything. And they said, What if instead of being a shoe company that happens to sell shoes online? What if we become a customer service company that happens to sell shoes, right? And overnight, they changed the game. And they decided, you know, customer service is super important. We’re going to take it in house, you know, delivering fulfillment, that’s our core competency. We’re going to take that in house. We can’t let that fail. And obviously at that scale, they were able to do that, but But for them, it was a pivot. It was a real realization that there was something bigger than what they were selling, that they could tap into, they had discovered it, they hadn’t set out with that. And that discovery, that process is available for anybody. Here’s the irony, Josh. And this is just laying it laying the foundation on straight. Most of the people that I know, who run around trying to make money, wind up losing more money than they make, that’s just the reality of it, they try to find a way, you know, it’s like COVID, hits the pandemic hits, and it’s like, I’m gonna get into hand sanitizer, you know, like, oh, my gosh, you know, a little late to the game. But, you know, just like, I just watched his people lose money trying to sort of capitalize on this easy win, the people that I’ve seen beasts, most successful, oftentimes developed a product for themselves that they needed. And that solved a problem for them and said, you know, what, my kid couldn’t eat, you know, anything that he went, you know, we go to a birthday party or go to a friend’s house, he couldn’t eat any of the snacks. It’s got all these allergies, what can he say yes to? And the founder went on and created Yes Bar. I mean, they’re crushing it on Amazon, right. And so there’s this element where you kind of got to decide who you’re going to be. And the way I look at it, again, the parable of the principle or the paradigm that I look at it through the lenses, there are innovators, and there are imitators, there are people who go out and create products that they see as adding value that the world needs. And there are people who look at those products to go, I can create something cheaper, faster, whatever. And, you know, oftentimes those knock offs don’t do as well, right. They just, they just don’t, they just struggle. And again, there is no brand equity there. There’s no brand story. And so they’re missing something, even when they’re offered at a cheaper price, you know, so, you know, I’ve seen people kind of get in the game and play that game. But it’s often short lived. Like I said, I’ve seen people lose more money than they’ve made. But it really comes down to, am I here to make money, or am I here to add value. And I think I’ve sort of watched on the sidelines just to see people go, that’s not fair. I just listened to this story on how I built this. And they said, they didn’t even want to make money, they didn’t even care about it. And they’re millionaires. And here, I want to make money, and I can’t do it. And there’s a reason why. And it’s because they were looking to add value. And they were looking to solve a problem that they saw was real, and they didn’t care. Not that they didn’t care about making money at all, it just wasn’t their top priority. And I’ve just seen that play out time and time again, it’s a harsh reality, but it’s true. And I think if people can pick up on that, and dig down deep, everybody will discover that they were put on this planet to do something great to build a great product, to do something, whether it’s raise a kid or you know, be a nurse in a hospital or, you know, be a teacher, anything. And everybody has the ability and opportunity to add value. And there are so many products that are missing from the marketplace that hasn’t been invented yet or discovered. There’s room there’s room, but it comes from, you know, going down to the core values of who you are and discovering who you are, and deciding who you want to be that comes first.

Josh Hadley 28:01

You know, Shannon, I mean, this is a this is a fantastic mindset shift that I hope all of our listeners, you know, apply this into their own life, I, I am of the same agreement to yourself, Shannon, that there is more than enough room for all of us to compete. But to your point, you’ve got to bring value to the market, right? And Long gone are the days especially on Amazon, I’m just creating another me to product and especially if you’re in the US, like good luck trying to find something but cheaper and more efficient process. Like that’s not your capability, right? What you can do, and here’s where a lot of the overseas competitors, you know, failed to kind of compete with us on they don’t understand our market period. They don’t they don’t understand the end consumer. All they know how to do is to make things cheaply, right. Yeah. And so I think that’s, that’s a big mindset. Shift. Number one is approach everything, even new product opportunities as to Okay, here’s what’s out there in the market, but it’s probably not serving everybody the right way. So bring something new to the market. But I want to wrap up this whole brand building thing I know we’ve spent a lot of time on it. But I want to wrap it up by by one kind of, you know, action item here with you, Shannon, as you talked about specifically on Amazon, being able to showcase who your brand is, what you stand for, is your recommendation that you take one of your listing images, and you turn it into this kind of infographic or lifestyle image. And you kind of state your either your company mission or what your brand is about there. And then do you create a video right and obviously there’s a plus content and premium A plus content? Like where what’s your recommendation for like a seller that’s like I have none of that today, what should they actually go? Do?

Shannon Roddy 30:02

Yeah, I mean, you know, the one last piece to this, again, you can’t build a great brand, if you don’t have a great product, right? The foundation is you’ve got to have a quality product, even if you sell it, well, the reviews will come out. And right. So I want to just, you know, go back and it’ll lay the foundation, you got to have a great product for any of this to work, you know. And so once you’ve got a great product, it really is about showcasing it. And and again, I think the answer is it depends. It depends on the brand. I worked with the tattoo company, they were very much about lifestyle, they heard tons of influencers out there that had this very sort of sexy avant garde motif. And so the lifestyle images conveyed that, but they had things like, look, we don’t do animal testing, it’s cruelty free, it doesn’t have these sort of nasty ingredients in it. And so it wasn’t like one image that housed everything, it was sort of telling that story through the different product images, and reinforcing the a plus content. And I think the video was just lifestyle, right. So that was their sort of style is the way to translate their brand to Amazon. And that’s, again, that’s sort of what we do at Avenue 7, because it’s not a copy and paste platform, right? You’re really taking the essence of the brand and the product and translate it into Amazon. And there’s, you know, their style was very minimalistic, their bullet points were only one line long. And people go, Oh, well, that’s terrible for SEO, that’s never going to convert, you have to do paragraphs, you got to keyword stuff, their titles are one line long, their bullet points were one line long, and their conversion rate was insane. And so again, it does depend on the product. But at some point, you’ve got to be cognitive aware of what customers love, and what they’re engaging with, and continuing to tell that story. So, you know, again, combing through your product reviews is a great place to see what people love about the product, are you highlighting those things, you know, in your images in your product features and your plus content, if you’re not you shouldn’t be because that’s what customers actually care about. Oftentimes, when somebody creates a product, they what they think customers are going to really love about it customers don’t even care about. And what they thought was an afterthought turns out to be the biggest thing. Yelp, they didn’t even have reviews on their mind, they thought they threw read product reviews in or reviews for Yelp as an afterthought, not knowing that that was going to be their entire business, you know, yeah. And so again, it’s an element of discovery. It’s a process of discovery, and what works for your brand. But it really it really comes down to the specific company, what you’re selling and why you’re selling it.

Josh Hadley 32:37

I love that. Yeah, and be and being able to pivot. And as soon as you start to get feedback, and you read those reviews, then make the adjustments, right? I think too many people are like, set it and forget it. Oh, I already did my listing images. And did those five years ago, Shannon, I’m good, right? It’s like, read the image, read the feedback that you’re getting, and start focusing in on it. Is it a bunch of soccer moms that are buying it? Or is it a bunch of office, you know, professionals, right, that are working at a corporate company, etc. So all right, Shannon, let’s go into pillar number two here. We talked about building your brand, dive into this next pillar that’s going to help a seller go from seven to eight figures and beyond?

Shannon Roddy 33:22

Yeah, so it was a great pivot, you know, growing your brand. It’s exactly what you said, you know, you’re looking at where can you adapt and expand. And so that story of like, I haven’t optimized my listings, we were talking to, you know, a potential client that I had worked with years ago, under my previous company, and I’d help them create their graphics and do their SEO and their titles, features in a plus content. And literally nothing had been changed in the last four years. The ads budget, the campaign Strategy, the listings, the title, everything was the same for the last four years. That’s not gonna cut it.

Josh Hadley 33:56

Right. But Amazon’s supposed to be passive income, right?

Shannon Roddy 34:00

Yeah. You know, we we used to sort of sadly joke at some of the Amazon conferences that FBA stood for failed businesses on Amazon, because because people sort of get sold pipe dreams. And it’s really not fair. I mean, it’s really unfortunate. But Amazon is challenging. It is a business. Most businesses fail just businesses, period, you add the cutthroat nature of Amazon into the mix, like good luck, you know. So I’ve talked to people who are like, oh, yeah, it’s great. My Products, you know, should be here next week. And all all of a sudden, it’s held up at customs. It’s like, I didn’t know anything about customs. Nobody mentioned that to me. So more challenges than opportunities, but there’s still tons of opportunity. But you got to execute the fundamentals. And so that’s really the principle. I wish it was this, this beautiful, elaborate secret sauce, Josh, but it really comes down to executing the fundamentals. And so I’ve got sort of two comparison companies that I worked with over the same period of time, one whose name I can mention And when I won’t, but but table may was a TV tray company, and the founder, again an inventor, he’s like, You know what my parents would have guests over the home. And they’d be sitting around, they would have, like, they’d be watching TV or wanting to eat, they didn’t have a way to sort of like, where do I put stuff, you know, we’re hanging out in the den area. And so he created a table made as a TV tray that sort of folds up nice and easy. And it’s very lightweight, and it was great. But over time, they expanded and they adapted, it’s like, they had the table mate, and then they have the table mate, too. And then the table mate XL, for like, large, then we have the table eight, five, that would go over wheelchairs. And then they developed a table made for kids. Like, if you’re not adapting and expanding on your product line, you’re missing out. And if you don’t do it first, somebody else is going to do it for you. And so again, the idea that stagnant doesn’t survive, and stagnant definitely doesn’t survive on Amazon or E commerce, because there’s too many players in the market who are looking for those opportunities. And in you know, we see it all the time. Again, innovators and imitators, there are people who say, well find a product that’s selling well, and then just make one minor tweak, one minor improvement, but there’s also 50, people behind you doing the same thing and thinking the same thing, you got to do more than just a minor tweak, you got to make a significant improvement. And you’ve got to be willing to continue to do that over time, with an entire product line. And so, you know, again, I had another client who I think his brother was selling a product, you know, dominated the market, and said, You know what, a lot of people use my product in conjunction with this other product, I’ve never really sold it before. But I know how to do this on Amazon, I’m gonna get into this tangential field added another 2 million tests revenue last year by this tangential product line that’s expanding and adapting. But going back to Table mate, you know, I helped them launch on Amazon, probably five years ago, they hadn’t been really paying attention to the marketplace. And we’ll talk about this a little bit when we get to protect, but they hadn’t really been monitoring the marketplace, they didn’t really know anything about it. They had some resellers, there was a ton of counterfeiters, selling counterfeit products under the table mate brand, which is horrible, by the way, then people associate crappy products with your brand name, right? We’ll get into that in protect section. But you know, I took a look at it, we use Jungle Scout to do the sales estimates about 15 to 20,000 a month was going through table mate branded listings, even if they weren’t actual tailor made products. And what we found was that the sales were being sort of distributed across dozens, if not hundreds of listings. And so there was duplicate ASINs, there was ASINs, with the wrong UPC codes, there was counterfeits. And so they hired me I got in there. And this is something you could do five years ago as a solopreneur that you can’t do now, I got in there, we kicked off 135 resellers, we kicked off some 4035 to 40. Counterfeits, and we credit for optimized listings for their main products. And we did high quality product photography. We did seo keyword research, you know, well crafted product features that highlighted the feature and the benefit of the product, and decent A plus content. I mean, a plus content at that point was still pretty new, they became number one best seller in their category, which they held for the next three years, zero to a million the first year. And then it was just like double, you know, and grow and grow and grow. That’s just executing the fundamentals. And again, there’s this element of like, what’s the secret sauce? It’s doing everything really well, all the time. People People always ask me, What’s the secret bullet to Amazon? What’s the secret bullet, I say it’s doing 128 things, right. And that’s really honestly true, you’ve got to do every aspect from your labeling and your FBA and your inventory and your returns and your customer service and your listing optimization, your advertising and on and on and on, you’ve got to do all of it, right? Because the cracks and the gaps are too big. Every time you leave a gap, it’s a loss of revenue every single time. So it’s like, you know, you imagine this house, you know, and it’s flooding, you’ve got 128 gaps that you’ve got to close up so that you keep the water out and you can retain your home, it’s the same thing. You got to close all the gaps so that you can retain the profits for your business.

Josh Hadley 39:11

Makes a lot of sense. I mean, that focus on growing that brand and I love what you talked about there with table me and coming up with, you know, optimized images and SEO content and and really just putting your best foot forward obviously leveraging that brand that you’ve already established. Are there any other mistakes that you’ve seen other sellers make when it comes to growing that brand on Amazon, like simple things that they’re overlooking, on product detail pages, or with PPC, anything that you would share there?

Shannon Roddy 39:47

Yeah, I mean, again, what I teach our ads team, you know, at the highest level is you look at what’s working and you do more of it. And you look at what’s not working and you do less of it. I mean, it’s it’s really that simple. Most people don’t Have a holistic view of Amazon. In fact, a lot of people don’t even understand their profitability. We we love Tyler Jefcoat over at Seller Accountant because he helps brand owners understand what their true profitability is. I mean, he talked to brand owners ago, well, I just finished my year, can you help me calculate if I made any money or not. And after an entire year of seven figure sellers, seven figure seller, by the way, means absolutely nothing. Because it’s just a number, and anybody can get to that. But profit is the true metric. Yeah. And after all, the dust settled, she’d made 10 grand, she would have been better off working at McDonald’s for minimum wage, wow. And it’s like, Amazon is back breaking to come out. You know, with that, you’ve got to use tools and metrics. You know, merchant spring is another one, just, you know, as a great sort of reporting tool to add your cost of goods, I think I’m pretty sure you can add your cost of goods, it sucks in your advertising data and all the FBA fees, it kind of gives you your true profitability. If you don’t know that number. Nothing else matters, right? So you’ve got to really have a firm grasp on what your true profitability is. And then you can know where you can make tweaks. But, you know, with tailor made, like I said, they just did a lot of things consistently, well, we discovered new keywords over time, we added those to the titles, we added those four listings, we discovered keywords that did not convert over time, culture changes, what people use the products for change, you’ve got to make tweaks and changes. And we continue to do that, you know, you know, the sad part of the story, but the honest part of the story, you know, I think most of this is, you know, public information, I guess, is they were acquired by an aggregator that did not keep up that relentless optimization and that growth. And instead of being the number one best seller, I mean, I could barely find them on page one. That’s, that’s heartbreaking, because they weren’t executing the same fundamentals, you know. And we could see that there was another seller coming up in the rankings, gaining traction very quickly. We’re like watching this guy, you know, and it’s like, he’s coming after our market share. If you’re not prepared to do something about that and go to war, yeah, then you’re gonna lose. And so there’s this, there’s this part where every company, you, you’ve experienced this growth, and then you have sort of this is sort of levels off. Yeah. And at that point, you’re either going to sink, you’re going to slowly decline, or you’re going to take it to the next level. Yeah, great brands take it to the next level. And so the contrasting story, Josh, that I want to share with our audience, sort of as a warning, is another company that I worked with the same time period, and they had a innovative product, we can talk a little bit about innovative products, but they had an innovative product. And we were having a hard time kind of getting out there explaining what was different. So we’re launched on the Amazon listings, we’re all built out. And we launched a Kickstarter campaign. And so they shot like a six minute Kickstarter video, I set up the Kickstarter campaign for them. And one of these Facebook groups that has Amazon affiliate codes as their primary source of revenue, you know, they create these little videos with like swirly stuff, and new products and all this exciting stuff. They took a six minute minute video, and cut it down into 30 seconds, put value propositions, the real benefits and features of the product on the video, cut to music, and this thing went viral overnight. Not only did that video go viral, but when other Facebook groups saw that video went viral, they created their own versions. And soon in multiple countries in multiple languages. That video went viral. with a cumulative total of 100 million views. Wow, we sold our inventory in less than four days, it was nuts. In fact, it crushed our FBA inventory, literally overnight. And then we emptied an entire warehouse, using fulfilled by merchant. And I had to contact Amazon Seller Support and their account helped him and said, Hey, guys, we had a little of an issue. We’re going to be late on fulfilling some of these orders, please don’t shut our account down. And I said, here’s the statistics. And this is according to the software tool that we’re using to integrate with our shipping. I said, last week, our sales increased by 200,000%. Can you give us a little grace, and they never write back? They wrote back and they said, Wow, in one word like that was totally out of Amazon characteristic. Yeah, they wrote back and said, Wow, and they never shut down our account, even though we’re late on shipping. Any entrepreneur in their mind would think, holy cow, that is a dynamite Goldmine opportunity. That’s a, that’s a touchdown, that’s a win, but because they weren’t executing the other fundamentals of the business internally, right? Whether it was accounting, or budgeting, or marketing, or all the other things that you have to do to grow and sustain a business weren’t getting done. And so at the end of the day, nothing happened. You know, it’s like they weren’t able to capitalize on this massive social media splurge. And over the next two years, if you looked at table mate sales versus this other company, came out with mate was doing well over 100 times with the other company was doing and so again, gets reinforcing this idea that, that that success is executing the fundamentals. It is in basketball at his passing and dribbling and shooting, everybody wants to do the cool slam dunk, but slam dunks, do not win games, you know, the fundamentals do over time consistently and repeatedly. And it’s just good business leadership. So I hope that your audience is able to take away some kind of key nuggets. And again, it’s, it’s a bit of a mind shift, you know, mindset shift, because most people will say, you’re looking for that one off that splurge that, you know, oh, you know, whatever it is, it kind of accelerated to the next level, but you’ve got to be able to maintain that consistency, or it can tank your business.

Josh Hadley 45:39

Yeah. I mean, what fantastic, you know, case studies and stories that you shared with us, I have so much to download and dissect from there. But number one, you know, Tyler Jefcoat you gave him a shout out highly recommend people reach out to Tyler Jefcoat, he was on the podcast as well. He shared some very good like he went through and provided like top line like metrics and what the averages are for, for Amazon sellers. So make sure you go listen to his podcast episode that we recorded, just go back, it’s probably a couple months old. But go back and listen to that and evaluate where you’re at. Because you don’t want to be yet that having revenue is vanity. But profit is reality and sanity, right? You don’t want to end up with $10,000 at the end of the day, because that with all of the massive effort that you have to take on as an Amazon seller. But one thing I want to wrap up before we move into this protect stage of your pillar. You had mentioned that as soon as table mate was kind of acquired, right, that they began to stop doing some of those fundamentals, and they lost a ton of market share. Can you just dissect like if we could have like a five point checklist or something? What are those fundamentals that you’re saying? Like because they stopped doing X, Y and Z? This stuff start like they started to become irrelevant?

Shannon Roddy 47:02

Yeah, I mean, I wish I could have seen behind the scenes at that point, you know, I lost access to the account or know what the things that they were doing, or my guess is what’s it’s what they weren’t doing behind the scenes. But your brand is not just Amazon. In fact, if you’re just an Amazon brand, I highly recommend diversifying. So you know, again, I think for years, there were one of the top selling products on QVC. I think they severed their agreement with QVC. And stop doing that. Well, that’s huge social value and brand awareness at the highest level. You know, they had an e commerce website, which just redirected to the Amazon storefront, but you’re cutting out all of those DTC sales, the ability to retarget customers, you lose all the SEO value of the website domain. It’s again, I think, I think it’s what they stopped doing more than what they you know, started doing or failed to continue to do that really hurt him. But you know, I don’t have sort of magic crystal glow to peek behind the curtains. But, you know, what I know works is showing up and being present and being aware of your competitors and saying, these are what these guys are coming after us with lower price point, new value propositions, new features, new assessors, what are we going to do? And sometimes it’s knowing, you know, honestly, sometimes it’s knowing when to throw in the towel and say, Look, we’re moving somewhere else. Three M, which has been one of the most innovative companies in the last 100 plus years, you know, to survive over a century is incredible. They the way they look at it is they want 20% of their revenue to come from products that have been created in the last five years. And so once the product becomes commoditized, they get out there like all right, the rest of you guys can have it, you guys are better mass producing these and kind of making profit on these little margins. We want the high profit margin ones, we want to be the innovators, and so they know when to exit the game. And I think, you know, companies great brands know when to pivot, and they know when they can no longer play the game that they’ve been playing. And again, I mean, there’s so much that goes into that, that we could unpack. But you know, just one last example, before we switch to the last piece of protect is, you know, I met a pasta company at Fancy Food Show a few years ago. And we’re going through Amazon. Did you guys Yeah, you know, I don’t really make a lot of money on Amazon. So I haven’t really invest a lot of time, right? It’s the sort of the reverse chicken egg. If philosophy. Well, the reason you’re not making a lot of money, because you’re not investing a lot of time and energy into it. And I just said, Look, if you do these five things, your titles aren’t optimized. There’s no SEO, your product features aren’t standardized, you know, they’re not optimized, the product images are terrible. And you don’t have an advertising Strategy. Like if we can just do those main things. And then let’s add an A plus content that reflects the product images, because really, to some extent, it can be redundant. You’re just reinforcing the same three, four reasons why people buy the product, and then you keep it in stock. You know, I mean, it’s something that people overlook all the time, but they don’t think they’re doing well on Amazon On, it’s like, what percentage of the year were you out of stock on on stuff, you can’t sell what you don’t what you don’t list. And so she made a point to get more product into FBA, the title optimization was pretty easy, because as a pasta company, they had hundreds of different variations. But it was like you change a keyword out. So we’d optimize one title. And then she just search and replace, you know, for all her different brands. And we did the same thing for the product features, mindful goods, didn’t run by Danielle Boltzmann did the product images. And again, they could use, reuse 80% of the product images and only had to customize the first or second one. So there was a lot of sort of, you know, duplicate process that you could sort of reuse that you didn’t have to come up with, you know, original content for everything. And then we just executed a basic fundamental ad Strategy. And they tripled the revenue in one year, you know, and again, you’ve got to pay attention to the details, the devils in the details, you’ve got to look at the nuances of the keywords that are converting the messaging that’s converting, and the advertising that’s converting, and they all interplay and you have to constantly analyze and reassess that flywheel to make sure that basically, you’re relentlessly optimizing forever. Everything.

Josh Hadley 51:09

Yeah, no, I completely echo everything that you talked about, and being able to continue to move forward. Right? I love the analogy there with three M, right. It’s like, they get it go. And then they see a bunch of you know, you know, imitators coming on there. And it’s like, alright, we’re on to the next thing, right. And that leads to always be innovating, bringing new products to the market and not just being complacent. So I love that. All right, Shannon. So what is this third pillar that’s going to help a seven figure seller grow to eight figures and beyond?

Shannon Roddy 51:41

Yeah, so the last one, as my voice starts to go out a little bit here, you have to protect your brand. And there’s a lot of ways that you can do that. But But ultimately, it comes down to having a defensible product. And this relates back to what we just talked about with three M, once the patent runs out, and anybody can make that they’re like, we’re out of the game, right. And they know that and they plan for that. So as long as you’ve got a patent, you know, and you’ve got two primary patents you got, you got utility patents, how it functions, you’ve got design, patent, how it looks, you know, the utility patents are harder to get but but definitely important based on the product that you have. Having some type of IP defensibility is huge. Again, if you don’t have a trademark for your brand, you shouldn’t even be on Amazon. I mean, it’s like if you’re on Amazon and don’t have a trademark for your brand, get one go call Scott Harders from you know, Fisher Broyles through the accelerator, IP accelerator program and get your trademark because you have to have it on Amazon to succeed. Because anybody can come along and trademark your brand name if you’re not protecting it. So you’ve got to protect your brand name through IP, but you also want to protect the product. The other two ways that you can have some defense ability is number one sourcing. So if you have exclusive sourcing on a product or a type of product, that’s going to give you some protection, some defensibility. So I worked with a woman she had a magnet product. And her name, her name was Margaret, I think they’re called Maggie’s Maggie’s magnets. And but but the were the place that she got these magnets, they were only sort of found in one place of the world. And she had sort of exclusive rights to export them. So nobody else could get the products with, you know, magnets of this high, you know, level of magnetism, that’s defensibility. Right. So again, if anybody can recreate your product, if anybody can source the same materials, if anybody can sort of do the same things, with almost no added cost, you have no defensibility. And, you know, the last piece is, in addition to IP, as you know, it’s also sort of the brand equity, right? So if you and I have even the same exact product, but you have greater brand awareness than I do, you’re gonna be able to sell that product at a higher price and more of that product. And I can not because anything is different about it. But that brand equity gives you a little bit of cushion a little bit of defensibility. I had another client we we’ve got a client, I could kind of talk about high level from an IP standpoint, they’ve got a utility patent, they’re waiting on a design had to come through. But you know, you talk about them getting ready to launch on Amazon, and all of a sudden they see a competitor, right the me to the invitation product show up on Amazon and holy cow, they’re at a fraction of the price. Okay, within one week, it goes from one to seven, two weeks, we’re getting ready to file you know, the the patent infringement now it’s up to 18. By the time we filed, it’s up to 77. And we wound up kicking off over 250 people who had done exact replica knockoffs of that product, right? If you don’t think that you need IP to protect your brand on Amazon, get ready to get slaughtered because you have got to defend your brand. And part of that is having really good solid IP block down buttoned You know, buttoned up, you know, if you’ve got global distribution, you got to do it globally, right? I’m not an IP attorney, right? Hold me to anything. But there are elements that you’ve got to have defensibility. The other element that I’ve seen in this was the same client, he said, You know, we’ve got a product that we’re gonna be releasing, but just to develop it just to produce it, the molds are going to be $50,000, that alone is cost prohibitive, it’s going to keep a lot of those metoo imitators out of the game, right. So you’ve got to have something that’s different, you’ve got to have a better product, you’ve got to be able to guard your source, you’ve got to be able to have some IP that keeps anybody else from just coming across and creating the same thing. Because, you know, as unfair as it may seem, Hydrox was the original cookie. Oreo was the imitator. Everybody knows Oreo, you’re talking about hydroxyls. Like what? Okay, Oreo, in my opinion, created a better product, and did a better job marketing it and they own the market, you know, and so they’re trying to bring Hydrox back, they brought it back and then shut it down. Try to bring it back again. But But sometimes the imitator can win if they do a better job executing all the things that the original brand owner should have done. Yeah. Right. And so you know, that’s, that’s protecting the brand at the highest level, from a really practical standpoint. And there’s so much argument about this on social media, I don’t even get into it. But you’ve got to protect your brand on Amazon, you’ve got to do defensive brand advertising. And it’s the number one thing I get pushback from Jason and I have conversations, it’s the number one thing he gets pushback on. We don’t want to defend our brand on Amazon, why should we pay to run an ad for our brand, when my product is organically ranked below that I don’t want them to accident and I had a client say this, I don’t want them to accidentally click on my ad, instead of scrolling down to my organic listing. And there’s two reasons probably more, number one, if you don’t grab that top spot, somebody else will write. And they will just steal market share to your customers are not as loyal as you think they are. Everything’s, well, if they search for my brand, then they must want my product. And we haven’t had a contractor who said, Well, when I go to buy a product on Amazon, if I search for that, that’s what I want. And regardless of the other ads and competitor stuff, I never ever buy it. So we don’t do defensive advertising. I’m like, Look, do you know how much money our clients make off of doing competitor advertising advertising on competitor brand names where we have a superior value proposition? It’s a lot of money. And the reason is because you don’t know how loyal somebody is just because they search your brand name. I could say Josh, you should go check out this product on Amazon. I just got it. It’s great. It helped my you know, armour it’s you know, it’s it’s a it’s like EPS Summit, right EPS summit lotion, it’s an Epsom salt lotion, five times concentrate is awesome, go check it out. If you go search that you may see another product that piques your curiosity that maybe has higher ratings, maybe a lower price, like I’m gonna try this instead. And the way to defend your brand on Amazon is with full defensive advertising Strategy brand at the top. If you’ve got four products for sponsored product ads taken up the four top spots in a video ad, make it’s so expensive for your competitors, that they’re like, I’m not even going to try, we’ll over bid on on our branded terms just so that competitors never even give it a second thought their ads never show. And that is part of that product defense, you know, Strategy that we employ here at our seven.

Josh Hadley 58:29

I love it. So many good ideas, so many good ideas. But specific case studies that you shared, I think the the Oreo case study, I mean, that’s fantastic. The defensibility with your ad campaigns, IP intellectual property, that’s something that we just went through last week. And we were able to go to somebody who was trying to knock us off and they hired a lawyer and said, I don’t believe we’re knocking you off. And I said, Okay, not only did the Amazon take it down for a copyright, but by the way, we also have the design pattern for this. Here’s this. Oh, and by the way, we have over, we have hundreds of copyrights. And we also have hundreds of design pants. So think twice before you come back to us again, right. And so I know that competitor, genuinely is going to think twice again, because they ended up having to destroy all of their inventory. And all of this wasted money, right? That just went down the drain because they weren’t. They were the imitator and they just think that everything’s a fair game, right? And so word of caution on both sides, right? Don’t just think you can imitate somebody. But then secondly, you know, this something that we learned the first few years we are in business, we didn’t get those design patents, we didn’t get those copyrights. And we didn’t try to kick off those competitors. And in hindsight, we should have we lost market share to some of them now, but we continued to innovate and that’s why we continue to grow Bro. But now it’s like, Can I continue to grow and innovate and protect our existing products that builds a much more sustainable brand in the long run? So I love that Shannon, you articulated that really well. This is this episode has gone on a lot longer than either of us, I think initially anticipated. But there’s been so much value added here. As we wrap things up here, Shannon, I love to leave the audience with three actionable takeaways from each episode. So here are the three takeaways that I’ve noted, Shannon, let me know if you think I’m missing something. But number one, you have to identify what your brand culture or what your brand stands for, what’s your brand mission? What is it about. And most importantly, if you already have maybe some idea of what your brand is, the actionable Strategy here, and I think I’m speaking to myself here is make sure that you’re showcasing that pictures, tell 1000 words, right videos, images, make sure you’re showcasing that in either a secondary image, a video on that product detail page, or even in your A plus content, or premium A plus content with your brand story, get really good at creating that emotional connection to, you know, to that potential customer. But you can price a little bit higher because of that brand equity that you will create. So that’s action item number one, action item number two is having adaptability and being able to continue to grow and innovate. And I would argue one of the most important things for any e commerce seller is expanding your product line, you shared a great example of you know, in that frequently purchased together section a brand owners like Hey, I see a lot of people also buying this, they ended up going into that market and brought an extra 2 million to them. That’s the way our business has continued to grow, we produce and create at least 20 to 30 new skews every single month, we’re bringing new products to the market on a regular basis. Because if you’re not growing and expanding that product line, which also has a compounding effect in your overall brand in and of itself. But if you’re not doing that, you’re frankly going to be dying. And then last but not least, the third actionable takeaway is to go protect yourself, choose one of the many things that we talked about whether it’s you know, having protection and defensibility, because you have the only access to a potential resource like a magnet, or something like that, or you have a really high cost for you know, to create a mold $50,000 Plus, or just having a design, patent, utility patent, especially having copyrights, and then also having the defensibility with your ad campaign. So I think a lot of people typically when you think about protecting yourself, go straight to Well, I don’t have a utility pan, mine’s not unique enough to do that. Like, okay, that’s fine. But think to start thinking outside the box, and you gave some practical ways that people could actually create some defensibility for their product campaigns in for anything else, Shannon?

Shannon Roddy 1:03:19

No, that’s everything I know.

Josh Hadley 1:03:21

I love it. I love it. As we wrap things up, I like to ask you three final questions. So the first one is what’s been the most influential book that you’ve read and why,

Shannon Roddy 1:03:31

you know, the most influential business book I’ve read, because I’ve read a lot of books. But business wise, it’s been Good to Great by Jim Collins, again, he just gets to those core principles of what it takes to lead a great company. And they’re still true today. I mean, it’s still like a number one bestseller after 20 plus years. And you know, so many great businesses have flourished under his guidance and leadership. And again, I’d probably put him as he’s a coach, not necessarily player like he may make a terrible CEO if you were to step into that role of a thriving company, but but he’s such an amazing coach and and I’ve respect his work so much. It’s been definitely impactful. And my my business and my career.

Josh Hadley 1:04:08

I love it. Definitely a book we’ve heard recommended very often on this podcast, so if you haven’t read it, go read it. Go get it. All right. Next question here, Shannon. What is a new software or productivity tool that you’ve come across that you think is going to be a game changer?

Shannon Roddy 1:04:24

You know what, for me right now, honestly, from a time saving standpoint, it’s an oldie but a goodie, it’s Calendly. I just freaking love Calendly. And I just learned that you can now put specific time suggested times in an email, I’ve never done that before. So it’s like, Okay, pick a time on my calendar, but I really want to meet with them early next week. And so now you go and you go share and you go, Okay, here’s the three times on Tuesday that I can meet with you. And it actually puts those as three separate button options. In the email. I’m like, this is cool. So again, Calendly great example of a company that has always expanding, they’re always innovating. They’re always. Okay. Let’s now let’s add round robin calendaring. And now let’s add follow up. So now let’s add our automation. And now let’s add routing. You know, it’s like, if you answer this question, you go to this forum, if you answer that question, you can book an appointment. So, you know, Calendly is, again, it’s a great software, it’s simple, it’s easy. And it saves me from having an administrative assistant who does nothing but manage my schedule.

Josh Hadley 1:05:24

I love it. All right, last but not least, who is somebody that you admire or respect the most in the E commerce space that you would recommend other people start following? Yeah, so

Shannon Roddy 1:05:33

you know, I’m gonna have to say, Jason voice. And it’s not just because he’s my boss. But but he really is. He’s a passionate leader. And he’s a he’s a strong advocate for sellers and brand owners in the Amazon and E commerce community. And whether it’s, you know, through legislation, talking to legislators, whether it’s advocating publicly for, you know, changes that Amazon needs to make, we do a lot of that on the day to podcast, he passionately believes in helping brands and sellers. And we also do, you just what we do for our clients, it’s like, when we see a client struggling, we’re able to take their account, and help them fix those problems and take it to the next level, and get back some of that money that Amazon sort of taken them, you know, for a ride on. It’s very gratifying. And so, you know, in the E commerce space, when I first met Jason, before even having a conversation about acquisition, the first thing he said to me was, thank you for everything you do for sellers, and it was very genuine, it was very heartfelt. And again, it starts with authenticity. And Jason’s got plenty of personality to go around as well. But, but you know, he really does fight for brand owners and sellers, with a ferocious passion that I just have not seen masked by anyone. That’s certainly at an agency status. He cares about every single client that comes through our doors, but he also cares about the sellers and the seller community beyond and, and helping in any way he can to make that community better.

Josh Hadley 1:07:00

Yeah, that’s fantastic. All right, Shannon, where can people go to learn more about Avenue 7 Media, I believe you have a free resource to to give out. Tell us more.

Shannon Roddy 1:07:12

Yeah. So you can find us on Amazon or start them again. So you can find us at Avenue7media.com. That’s Avenue, the number seven media.com. And we’ll also put a checklist a link for a free checklist. It’s basically the 128 things that I talked about. So if you go to AVE seven, A V E number seven.com forward slash checklist, you’ll be able to put in your email. We won’t spam you. But we’ll offer updates and tips and new podcasts and you can download that free checklist and get tons of information resources and get a little glimpse into what we do as an agency to help sellers.

Josh Hadley 1:07:51

Awesome. All right, Shannon. Well, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your wisdom for

Shannon Roddy 1:07:55

Thanks for having me, Josh. Anytime. Really appreciate it and look forward to coming back again some time.

Outro 1:08:02

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