In this Throwback episode, Chad Franzen interviews Josh, who shares his proven seven-step hiring process designed for business owners scaling to 8 figures and beyond. Josh details how to define roles, set KPIs, attract top talent, and rigorously assess candidates through assessments, test projects, and in-depth interviews. Listeners will learn actionable strategies to efficiently filter large applicant pools and secure high-performing team members. Chad and Josh’s discussion is packed with practical tips and real-world examples, offering a blueprint for building world-class teams and accelerating business growth.

Chapters:

Overview of the Seven Steps (00:00:00)
Josh outlines the seven-step process for hiring effective team players, giving a broad overview.

Introduction of Chad Frandsen and Episode Context (00:01:18)
Chad is introduced as the interviewer, and the episode’s focus on hiring is set.

Step 1: Define the Role and Success Criteria (00:01:52)
Discussion on clearly defining the role, identifying business bottlenecks, and conducting a time study.

Step 2: Set KPIs and Responsibilities (00:03:21)
Explains how to set measurable KPIs and clarify day-to-day responsibilities for the role.

Step 3: List the Job on Multiple Sites (00:04:37)
Covers creating a compelling job description and posting it on various job sites, especially for international hires.

Step 4: Applicant Assessments (00:06:06)
Describes using assessments (like Criteria Corp) to quickly filter a large pool of applicants.

Step 5: Test Projects for Applicants (00:07:44)
Explains giving test projects to shortlisted candidates and provides examples of effective test assignments.

Step 6: Conduct Interviews (00:12:09)
Details the interview process, focusing on identifying patterns of success and using reference-based questions.

Step 7: Extend Offer and Role Profile (00:14:23)
Discusses making the final offer, sometimes to multiple candidates, and ensuring clarity with a role profile document.

Reflections and Closing Remarks (00:15:27)
Josh reflects on the process’s effectiveness, and both speakers conclude the episode.

Links and Mentions:

Tools and Websites 
Upwork now Fiverr
Online Jobs 
Indeed
Criteria Corp 

Books and Case Studies 
Harvard Business Review Case Studies

Transcript:

Chad 00:00:00  Why don’t you go through the seven steps? Just kind of a broad view of the seven steps, and then we’ll dive into each one individually. Awesome. All right.

Josh 00:00:07  So there’s seven main steps to hiring a effective a team player for your business. Number one is you’ve got to define the role and what success looks like. Number two you’ve got to set KPIs and identify what the day to day responsibilities and tasks are going to be. Number three, you’ve got to list the job and on multiple websites and promote it on multiple websites. Step number four is once you start receiving applicants, you need to have those applicants take assessments. Step number five you need to give those applicants that pass your assessments test projects to complete. And step number six, those people that pass your test projects that you give them. You need to actually do interviews with them. Okay. And during these interviews you’ll be looking for a pattern of success in their career. We’ll dive into all of these in more detail, but step number seven is to extend the offer in correlation with having them sign a role profile document so that everybody is on the same page in terms of what the expectations are, so that when they start, they understand that this is a probationary time.

Josh 00:01:18  They’ve got to earn the job. Today I’m excited to introduce to you Chad Franzen. He is here with rise 25, who has done hundreds of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. We have flipped the script and he will be interviewing me today.

Chad 00:01:34  the last time we spoke, we spoke about kind of the some of the difficulties you had getting going with various things. And one of those things was hiring people and kind of hiring them into ambiguous roles. Now, I know the thing. The time period you talked about was a few years ago. You’ve certainly drilled that down. And we’d like to talk about maybe your hiring process this time.

Josh 00:01:52  You’ve got to be able to clearly articulate what success looks like from the onset and also understand how. Why is that one of the most pressing issues in your business right now? Why are you hiring them? So that’s the first step is is actually defining the role. So what does this mean? It means you need to go through and assess in your business where is your biggest bottleneck.

Josh 00:02:15  And rather than just saying, hey, I look at all these other companies and everybody has, let’s say an operations manager. Just because everybody else has an operations manager doesn’t mean that that needs to be your first hire. So you do a two week time study where you’re literally analyzing where you spend your time every 15 minutes of the day. This is even personal time and your working time. And then at the end of those two weeks, take a step back and then look at the results, right. Where are you spending most of your time? And if you can identify wow, I’m doing a lot of operational tasks. Well, maybe you need to hire a project manager or wow, I’m doing a lot of marketing tasks or I’m doing a lot of influence or partnerships or whatever that might be. If you can identify that that is where you begin to say, okay, it looks like this is where a lot of my time is going. If I can then replicate somebody else to be doing what I’m doing, at least 80% or better, look at how much time this is going to free up for myself.

Chad 00:03:21  That kind of leads us into step two. Then set KPIs and day to day activities and responsibilities.

Josh 00:03:27  The next step in step number two is actually defining how you’re going to measure that success, right? Don’t just say, well, you’re you’re running the business. Okay. What is that? What does that mean? Right. You’re making sure all the projects get completed. The setting KPIs forces you to create measurable activities or events in your business. So for me, I listed one of our KPIs that I listed for our new VP of operations is that 90% of all of our team member KPIs, because every single one of our team members have their own KPIs. 90% of all of those team member KPIs that are reporting to him need to be green. Like we’re meeting those targets and above, right? So that’s very clear. Like it’s not this hey, I need to make sure your team is performing well. It’s it needs to be 90% of or above. And we get to measure this specifically every single week I can get a report and say, this week we’re at 80%.

Josh 00:04:27  All right. We got some room for improvement. This week we’re at 95%. Okay, good. We’re headed in the right direction. So KPIs are are super important. They’ve got to be measurable events.

Chad 00:04:37  So step three then is listing the job on multiple sites. Are all these things that you have determined in that job posting or is that just handy to know when you’ve hired the candidate?

Josh 00:04:47  So steps one and two are walking through you kind of like creating a job description ultimately right. So step number three is you’ve created basically your job description. At this point. You’ve told people what success looks like. You’ve listed out the day to day responsibilities and activities and the KPIs. If you do that in and of itself, candidates get excited because they’re like, these people know what they’re doing, and I know what I can do to achieve those results. Like, you’re going to get a talent actually applying for your job listings because of the way that you’ve written out your job post, right? Then you go out and you get that thing plastered everywhere you can, right? now, one of our areas of specialty has been being able to hire, you know, I call it management level staff, but overseas.

Josh 00:05:36  And so we’re able to get really, really smart people, but that are working, you know, internationally and in different countries. So the job sites that we use to go find these contractors that are overseas is we’ll go to Upwork, we’ll go to online jobs. We will also post on indeed too many people just expect, well, I posted the job and only got like ten people that applied. Yeah, that’s a mistake. Like, you should probably be starting at a thousand so that you can whittle it down to one a player like genuinely speaking.

Chad 00:06:06  Wow. So you have you have 1000 applicants. And then your next step is have applicants take assessments. Do all thousands take these assessments.

Josh 00:06:15  Yeah. Yes. And that’s the way it’s like, how am I going to interview a thousand applicants. Right. No. Like let’s let’s break that barrier down right now because that that’s a myth okay. So step number four in this process is having the applicants take assessments. The website I found the software is called Criteria Corp.

Josh 00:06:34  Criteria Corp okay. And one of the assessments that we choose it’s called like the SAT score. The gist of it is that it’s like an IQ score. In addition to that, we have like a simple like verbal and mathematical skills assessment that will assess people’s like English speaking ability as well as their mathematical ability, especially since we’re hiring people overseas Immediately. We already have kind of like here’s the criteria that people need to pass for this particular role, right? So if I’m hiring like a management level staff or, you know, C-suite level staff, I need to have somebody that’s got a really high IQ, right? That honestly will whittle the candidates down from 1000 to 100 instantly. And so all you have to do is as soon as people apply, I’m not I don’t look at their resume. I don’t look at their cover letter. I don’t care what they send me, the very first thing they that get sent to them, it’s like, thanks for applying. Looks like you have an amazing, you know, job history and portfolio because my executive assistant is looking at them and sends that message to them and says, hey, please take this assessment.

Josh 00:07:40  That’s the next step in this process. And now I’m left with a list of 100.

Chad 00:07:44  So you have you have 100. And they have passed the assessment. what is next for these for these applicants.

Josh 00:07:51  Step number five is you have to give these 100 applicants a test project. Oh, don’t don’t give people actual work to do unless it’s paid, because that’s not fair to them. On the contrary, I was a college student. I was in my MBA program, and I was applying to be part of their MBA, leadership development program at American Airlines, which I got into. But one of the things that they asked me to do was they gave me a case study. They gave me a real world problem, and they sent it to me via Excel. And it was a timed assessment, like a time test project. They they had me like, schedule a time. They said, all right, show up at 2:00. We’re going to send this over to you via email at 2:00. And then you’ve got an hour to complete it.

Josh 00:08:37  And I did it. And, you know, could people consider like, I was doing free work for American Airlines? I was giving consulting work for them. Okay. Sure, you could argue that. But in my opinion, like, that’s a smart decision for American Airlines because I was then able to turn that around and then the manager was able to be like, yeah, okay. I like the train of thought that this guy has. We have found that the test project that we give people is one of the best predictors of success. How well they do on the test project, if they like, just excel. And I’m just like blown out of the water like, wow, this this guy’s impressive that that is seen in their work performance here as they work with us. Whereas sometimes if I’m like, well, it’s okay. And we end up hiring them. They end up being okay. And then maybe we have an exit conversation down the road. So let me give you a concrete example of what we did with our most recent hire.

Josh 00:09:34  This was our VP of operations. Like I mentioned, I need to see that this person has leadership capabilities. I need to see the way that they strategically think in the future and plan projects. So what we did is step number one. So I gave them three parts to this test project, and I gave them a week to complete it. It wasn’t timed. I said here are the three goals that we have for our business in the year 2023. Okay, one of them was like, we gotta launch 12 new products. We’ve got to do enhanced brand content for 1300 listings. And the last one was that we want to partner with ten different influencers. That’s our goal. I want you to break down. How does how do we actually achieve those goals in the year? Break down what things look like on a quarterly basis and on a monthly basis. And obviously, the results that I got almost instantly like the it it was very telling from the moment I would open somebody test project and be like, all right, we’re in a good wavelength here.

Josh 00:10:34  I like the way that you’ve structured things. You’ve communicated things properly to me. The next thing that we told them to do is we gave them kind of like a situation of, hey, a team member hasn’t been meeting their KPIs. What kind of what is your conversation look like? Okay. Now I want to know how do you interact with people? The people that said First off was like, well, they’re going to go on probation, and if this happens again, then they’re going to be left. Then we’ll have to exit them from the company. I was like wrong. That’s not that’s not the culture. One of our core values for our business is we are we correct the process, not the person. We first always look internally to say what broke down in our process? Did we not train them correctly? Is the process broken? They don’t have the tools. We first go through all of that and then if it is a personnel problem then yeah, we could approach that. But that’s the last resort.

Josh 00:11:28  That’s not the first thing. So very quickly I was able to again weed out people that that didn’t believe that same way. Right. And then finally I found a case study that was online. Okay. I just googled like Harvard Business Review, case studies about project management, operations management and went through and just I copied and pasted the, you know, case study and said, hey, fill out this case study. Here’s the three questions I need you to answer. How would you solve this problem? And from there, you know, was able to see the results.

Chad 00:11:59  And so you started a thousand. You get down to 100. And now you’ve you’ve given the applicants a test project. How many, how many, candidates are off to the left for interviews.

Josh 00:12:09  We see that we’re able to whittle it down to 5 to 10 candidates pretty easily from just the test projects. And I’m very critical of those test projects because I’ve only got a finite amount of time. I can’t interview all 20, all 30 or 50 candidates.

Josh 00:12:27  So I have to be very, you know, I’ve got to draw the line in the sand, so to speak, somewhere in the interview. We go through their whole career, but I’m not asking them like, hey, what did you do at this job? You know, tell me an area of, you know, what’s your greatest weakness? Or, you know, your typical hiring questions, which are just bogus. What I’m trying to do is I’m looking I’m going through their career and I’m looking for patterns of success, and for them to have continuously been promoted or rise to leadership positions in anything that they’ve done. People that are successful and that are a players, they naturally rise to become the team leaders, right? So even in college, when you’re doing teamwork, guess what? Typically it’s the a players that step up and end up being like, all right guys. Like let’s let’s figure this out. How are we going to do this right. So you’re going through every single one of their, you know, careers, right.

Josh 00:13:24  And roles that they’ve had. Here’s the other biggest like hack in like ninja tactic that I think is one of the best things that you can ask during the interview process. And I call this the truth serum. you tell them, hey, obviously this is an important role. We’re going to need to speak to your, you know, your references. Ideally, those are people that have been your managers in the past. Here’s the three questions that I do ask. So number one, how would you rate them on a scale of 1 to 10. Secondly, what is the greatest strength that they brought to your organization while you were there or while they were there? Step number three is what is their area of improvement? Okay. And you want to ask. You want to get to know people’s area of weakness. You’d ask it that way. You say when I reach out to Matt, what will he say is your area of improvement? Right? and then the last thing I do ask, so I guess is the fourth question is, would you hire this person again? Yes or no? So those are the questions that I do ask.

Josh 00:14:23  And that’s kind of the process I follow through those interviews. And naturally sometimes it will be a tough decision between 1 or 2 people. But then that leads into, you know, step number seven, which is extending an offer. And honestly, you have to go with your gut on this. You know, if you’ve got 2 or 3 candidates, they’re like, look, it’s a toss up. Like all of these people have great careers. You know, sometimes you could even hire both people, right? And be like, well, I’m going to plug you in into this other role just because you’re so good. I need to find an area for you. I’ve done that in the past where I’m like, look, you’re both good. I’m just figuring out a new opportunity for you because you’re amazing. That has worked out, and it’s required more work. Now I need to go define a new role. Profile all of that over there. But it’s been effective. So that is what I would say is how you, you know, the the process to hire and identify a players, bring them on to your team and have them continue to produce A level results for the business.

Chad 00:15:27  Wow. Sounds like what it sounds like an amazing process. And it’s it’s really worked out for you.

Josh 00:15:31  It has we’ve built an amazing team. It’s come with a lot of trial and error. So I hope that these seven tips and seven steps that I walk through today is able to help other entrepreneurs in their in their journey of of hiring new team members.

Chad 00:15:45  Absolutely. Well, hey, thanks for sharing those with us, Josh. It’s been great being here and great talking to you today.

Josh 00:15:50  Likewise. Thanks again Chad.

Chad 00:15:52  So long everybody.