Michael E Gerber 4:47
My delight. By the way, the readjustment of your script, okay, it’s now 32 E-Myth book strong 32
Tom Foster 4:57
Fantastic. Congratulations to you, sir.
Michael E Gerber 5:00
Thank you.
Jeremy Weisz 5:00
You just had one with Austin Clark, who I know a launch of that book for pest control space. Love it. And we promoted that event that you guys did together. So that was awesome.
Michael E Gerber 5:12
So, Austin’s a sweetheart?
Jeremy Weisz 5:14
He’s great. So David, why don’t you start us off? The first question?
David Nilssen 5:18
Sure. Well, first, Michael, I will say similar to Tom, one of the first books I read when I started my entrepreneurial journey, and was struggling because I was that entrepreneur that wanted to reinvent everything and change it constantly and pay little attention to process and procedures. And I just thought it was a fantastic book and inspirational for me in terms of how to evolve as a business owner. And I guess along those lines, I would ask, you know, when you first wrote the book, I’d be curious, what was the sort of overarching message you were hoping to convey? And then how has that changed? Since then, you know, if you look at how the world has evolved, how or has it changed?
Michael E Gerber 5:53
Well, first of all, let me correct something, the assumption you’ve made, that the world has evolved. Everybody believes that the world has evolved to pass it, the world has devolved. In fact, we are in worse shape today than we’ve ever been. So then what has evolved? Well, technology has evolved. Technology provides us with many tools that we didn’t have or even imagined admin than when I wrote my book. But what’s interesting about those tools is that they are in themselves systems, and they are purported to be systems that will transform the state of a business. The truth is, without what I’ve written in my core book of nothing will evolve. It will be though, because the systems themselves will be thought to be the marketing difference, that makes the business different. I’d like to add that it’s not about making the business different. It’s about making the design business, right. And the only way one can make the business right, is to meet the people right within the distance, who don’t understand why right the word, right, and what the word right really means. That’s the most profound impact. The E Myth Revisited is had, because it defined the word right, and doing so now more strenuously than I did in the book. But it defines the word right, in the right way. And that’s why, Tom, described his experience the way he has. And that’s why the David, you’ve described your definition the way you would have, and I’m sure I’ll hear very much the same thing from everyone else in this conversation. And please hear me when I say that that’s not my narcissism. Speaking. That’s my realization, speaking. That’s what the book meant and means, and we’re always made, and it will mean that forever,
Josh Hadley 8:06
you know, Michael, I’m amazed with the book that you you wrote E-Myth. And because it is a timeless principles that are going to impact generations to come. And I look forward to my children and my grandchildren being able to read those principles. As an E commerce business owner. And as I speak with other e commerce business owners, there’s kind of this myth that people believe that they could do it all on their own, right. And they, what they do is they build a team of a lot of V A’s that are surrounding themselves, but they are still the core function of the business. There’s a quote from your book that I want to read real quick and get your take on it. If your business depends on you, you don’t own a business, you have a job. And it’s the worst job in the world because you’re working for a lunatic. So, Michael, can you provide some additional insight as to if you are still working in the business? Why you don’t actually own a business? Well,
Michael E Gerber 9:10
you have to understand that oftentimes, my statements are stronger than they need to be, oftentimes, as well. They’re not strong enough, but an understanding, take that, quote, working for a lunatic, and you might change it to be working for an idiot. And it’s that idiot that I attempt to transform. And the only way in the world that idiot is going to be transformed, is if he or she doesn’t persist being that idiot in the way they think about who they are, why they do, what they do, what they’re there to create, and how it’s going to be created, if in fact, they grow beyond their immediate good. So it’s a master Master Master position to take charge of In short, just strenuously understand that while you’re not in a people development business, in short, that’s not the intent. You are, you get what I mean by that, while you’re not getting a people development business, you actually are everyone is, but the question then becomes what is people development? And how does one approach people development at the very outset, and that is in the positioning of who you are and what you do. So the most critical process and what I describe how many of you have read Beyond the E-Myth? Yes, I’ve read it. Well, congratulations, Josh. Folks, pick the book up. It’s beyond the Beyond The E-Myth: The Evolution of an Enterprise: From a Company of One to a Company of 1,000! And if the heart of that book is what I describe as the eightfold path, the Eightfold Path is crucial to the process of becoming who you intend to be. Let me describe the eight steps, the eightfold path, I have a dream, I have a vision, I have a purpose, I have a mission, I have a job, I have a practice, I have a business, I have an enterprise, a dream, a vision, the purpose, the mission, job, the practice, the business, the enterprise, the Eightfold Path, is the process for growing a company of one to a company of 1000 is the process of maturing, from doing it yourself, doing it, doing it, doing it doing it to create an enterprise that does it in great measure, with a great number of individuals who are in fact, instilled in the process of understanding and appreciating what a dream is, what a vision is, what a purpose is, what a nation is, how many of you are familiar with the dreaming room. So the dreaming room is a program that I developed to take one through the first four steps to discover your dream, your vision, your purpose, your mission, if you fail to discover your dream, I’m saying, you’ll never discover your vision. If you fail to discover your dream, I say, go to never discover your purpose. You follow me and follow me first, then that then that then that. So there’s a process, a mad process through which you grow in maturity, you grow in eloquence, you grow in ability to literally become the one you can’t even imagine becoming at the very outset of this process. My dream way back then in 1977. Wow, that’s a long time ago, my dream was to transform the state of small business worldwide. My dream was to transform the state of small business worldwide by vision was to invent the McDonald’s of small business development services. My mission was that every small business who in fact, accepts this process. And indeed, realize the outcome I’m describing here. And my mission is in was in 1977, that I can invent the distance development system that will make it possible for me to realize my dream, my vision, and my purpose, if that makes sense.
Josh Hadley 13:58
Makes a lot of sense. And I love those eight steps in that process that you go through because it truly is like an evolution of growing and developing.
Michael E Gerber 14:06
It’s an evolution. It’s an evolution, but it’s not based upon evolution. It’s based upon something significantly more compelling than evolution. Right? That’s what’s so critical about it.
Michelle Prince 14:19
Yeah, gosh, I had a different question. But now I want to kind of segue a little because, well, first of all, 14 years ago, I started my business and about a year in somebody gave me the E-Myth Revisited. And it changed my life and I would not be in business today had I not read that book and understood the importance of systems and, and process and all the things that I kind of
Michael E Gerber 14:43
see, each of you say what you’re saying. It does, it touches my heart, because of course, that’s the sole reason I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing and to hear is in such a compelling way in such an authentic way. Is very, very Moving to Leeds. So thank you. When you say years ago, years ago, years ago, years ago, and here you are evidencing in the shine on your faces in your hearts, how meaningful this was to you. It’s very, very compelling to me. Thank you. Well, it’s
Michelle Prince 15:19
a pleasure to be able to tell you that because it really is true. And it’s interesting when you start talking about the people development. And this is where my question change. So I came from and my background is in people development, I worked with Zig Ziglar. And when I started my business, I thought, that’s all I really needed. And that’s why The E-Myth really helped me because I realized I needed more than just my passion more than just those skills. I needed the systems. But what I’m hearing you say with the Beyond the E-Myth, it’s really, it isn’t one or the other, it is both. But what what is, what is something a brand new business owner can do to implement that quicker? Because I know for me, I wish I would have been able to implement this earlier, to take that dream mission vision and then transfer it into the systems and processes. Is there another way? Is there a faster way is there a better way than what people are doing today, because I see a lot of business owners who would even read it still struggle, and I’ll raise my hand and that sometimes to
Michael E Gerber 16:16
faster doesn’t work in my world. But it doesn’t work in yours either. And it’s simply a product of our time, faster, faster, faster, faster, everybody wants faster, when in fact, they can’t even do slower. And so I’m suggesting that first thing you can say to every single person in the room, don’t talk faster, to me faster, never has worked. And if it has, it’s an accident. If you attempt to emulate faster, you’re attempting to emulate stupid, because what you’ll discover at the end of faster is you haven’t gotten there, you only thought you had and the problem is it’s going to kill you faster than you can even imagine. It’s slower than Zen of it. It’s slower. It’s slower. Speak to me slowly. Measure your words, as you speak to me slowly. Take this in slowly. Practice it slowly, definitively, honestly, earnestly. With all of your being, as you’re going to the martial arts. There is no you get there faster, stupid, it’s impossible to understand you got to do this 1000 times, you’ve got to do this 3000 times. And you’ve got to do this 3000 times artfully, so artfully that you can’t even conceive of how you got to this point of doing this 1000 times 10,000 times. The gentleman who’s one of my co authors told me that he reread the E-Myth Revisited 39 times, hear me he reread it 39 times, that he never would have been able to do it. So artfully, had he not reread it 39 times you say that to somebody who’s in a hurry, you found a challenge. Yeah, Michelle, you follow me? Again, I do understand that you’re not actually attempting to teach them how to do it faster. you’re attempting to get it faster yourself, because they’re making a demand on you faster, faster, faster, Michelle. And because you’re concerned, you’re not going to be able to sustain your relationship with them. Unless you respond to them in kind, you’re forced to look for faster. Hear me be the artful one who looks for slower in every single thing you do. Be the artful one who looks for slower, and speak it more slowly, more definitively in contradiction to their requirement for you to go faster. That’s the best thing I can say.
Michelle Prince 19:31
No, that’s great advice. Thank you. Thank you for that
Michael E Gerber 19:34
idea. You have absolutely no idea the profound impact that will have on the people who work with you, as they slow down as they give themselves up to the pace of art. You don’t get our done quickly. You do it you do it and you do it and you do it and you’re doing it. You do it and you do it and you do it. If you do it and you’re doing and you do it and you do it, and you’re still a slob, you’re still a jerk, you’re still a beginner. So you must turn to everyone who says that and say you’re a beginner, moron, you’re a beginner, don’t you dare ask me for a quick solution to become an artist. Don’t you dare ask me for something, it’s impossible to give. Now, let’s all slow down, and you set that pace, you can feel that pace being set as you set that pace. Follow me as you set that pace, you set their hearts. And if you set their hearts appropriately, you set their imagination appropriate. And you surround yourself with individuals who are there for the long term, who are there for the long term? Can you imagine your students being there for the long term? Can you feel the difference that makes so imagine your martial arts class and follow me, you’re all martial art leaders who use Imagine your martial arts class slows you down, as you begin to see that everything changes? Well, Michael,
Tom Foster 21:19
that is fantastic. And, man, you are such an inspiration. You are the foundation, like everybody just has copied you for the last since you wrote the book, everybody’s just copied you and had some kind of version of what you came up with. So I’ve got a couple of questions. One is, how are you inspired to do it in the first place? Did you have a business that you were like, I’m an idiot, I gotta help other people where you want observing others friends, or your family, or what inspired you to go write the book in the first place?
Michael E Gerber 21:59
Well, I wasn’t inspired to write the book until I get the work. So working for 10 years, with small businesses at the request of a very close friend of mine, who had an advertising agency in Silicon Valley. And he had small business clients. And he told me about his problem with one particular client. And he asked me if I would come visit that flight to help him fix the problem he was having. And I said to my friend, and my friend’s name is Ace, Remus, and Ace is still a friend, and he’s by my sister’s husband. And his said he as I don’t know anything about business, I have no idea how I can help you said, Michael, you know, more than you think you do. Just come with me. Let’s be the guy. And that’s you would so be the agreeable, agreeable sort, but he and I left when I say that being the agreeable sort that I am, is it okay, sure. Let’s go. So I sat down with the guy and Ace them immediately said, Guys, I’m gonna take off and get to know each other, we’ll be back in an hour, I’m gonna take my blood. First thing the guy asked me as he looked at his watch. So what do you know about my business? Michael, have nothing? Because I did. And I wasn’t interested in asking ace, anything about the business? And he said, Well, what do you know about my product? And I said, less than that. And he really looked as confident. Well, if you don’t know anything about business, and you just want to maintain my product, how in the world can you help me as an admin a clue? I told ace that he said he thinks I can. And we’re here to meet to find out how. So the best way I know to do that is to get to ask you questions, and the first of the answers that you give me. So let’s get started. And that’s what we did. I began to ask him questions, and he began to answer them. And gradually over a very short period of time, it became obvious to me why the guy had to brown the guy at it wasn’t that I didn’t know about his business. It wasn’t that I didn’t know about his product. It’s that he didn’t. It became so transparent. In any case, that’s how this all started. And I saw that guy’s problem. And he asked me to meet with the second client and then a third client. And that’s how I got into the business on it. It’s pretty good. Because I began to realize that ace didn’t know what business he was in. And he didn’t understand his provenance because ace in the advertising business, was selling something that he shouldn’t be selling, because he was selling it to people who needed it something completely different. And that completely different is what I said. Object Create.
David Nilssen 25:01
Michael, I have a question. You said something a few minutes ago that just was really got me thinking. First of all, I will read.
Michael E Gerber 25:08
David, I want to Tom had several questions they wanted to conclude. So yeah, we do that.
Tom Foster 25:15
Thank you. I. The other question I had is, you’ve written several many books. And and it is amazing to me. How do you stay inspired? How do you keep your brand, so fresh? Over all of this time? And state? How have you done that? How have you had the mental? How have you done it? It’s just incredible. I have, like, my hat is off to you. How have you done that been able to keep that brand so strong and so fresh?
Michael E Gerber 25:51
Well, you have to appreciate the question, we became immersed in with the shell, that the problem is so difficult to solve, because the problem represents a problem with the development of the human life, every aspect of human life beyond anything we’ve ever addressed before. So it’s not how do I stay interested in it? It’s how does it stay interested in me sufficiently to keep me alive, working on it, to the degree that’s needed? Because Tom, let me say that my greatest problem is that the problem is bigger than any one of us. And that’s what is arisen in the work that I do, the problem is bigger than any one of us, I can’t even begin to challenge the weight, the size, the measure, the problem, to the degree called for, I certainly don’t have it within me sufficiently to uncover the complexity of it. And to approach it in a simplified way calls for demands that what I’m dealing with is an art form can’t be better described than that, an art form that’s beyond me. And because it’s an art form that’s beyond me, beyond you beyond any of us. It represents a challenge, a challenge that I welcome every single human being on the planet to engage with. And that’s what has kept me connected to it. It’s that Oh, my God, no, it’s not that it’s this. Yeah, God, it’s not this. It’s that, Oh, my God, it’s not this and that, it’s that and this and that. Right, who’s got the time, who’s got the energy, who’s got the wherewithal, who’s got the intelligence and follow me. So the job is bigger than any of us, you know, we solve that problem. We, we sitting here, we solve that problem, we transform the state of human life worldwide, not just in the thinking about it, but in the actual practice of it. So I want you to imagine and that’s what we’re engaged in transforming the practice of being human in everything we do. It’s called Holy shit. You mean, we can do that. So that’s what’s calling every one of us. Whether we’ve come to the realization of that or not, is another question. But that’s what’s calling each and every one of us that massive, massive, massive question, transform the state of humanity worldwide.
David Nilssen 28:51
Let me ask you a question. You’re talking about transforming humanity, I want to just talk about the transformation of an individual entrepreneur. And you actually brought this up a minute ago with the beyond E-Myth, you said one to 1000. And I think about the transformation or the evolution that an entrepreneur has to go through during that time period as being massive, because in the very beginning, we are chief cook, and bottle washer, and everything does depend on us. And as we grow, we have to learn how to trust our team, delegate, build our team, all those things. What advice would you give someone who is sort of in the middle there, they’re starting to make that transition? And finding it difficult, like all of us,
Michael E Gerber 29:30
quit? Do you say quit, quit, stop and start over again. We’re going to start at the beginning. Start over and your business is not going to succeed anyway. You’re not going to succeed anyway. Quit. Start at the beginning. And when I say that, understand how harsh that it’s in one respect because hope, hope and need and all the things that live in that question says, Oh, come on, come on, come on, I’m saying stop, quit, start a new, we’re going to start working on you as a human being first, long before we ever get to becoming an entrepreneur. First you as a human being, David as a human being, and that’s what we’re gonna do. That’s the work. Now, we’re we did discover that, where we do applications for that, where we do design, build, launch and grow that something absolutely miraculous would occur. So I’m saying if we were to start this whole thing with high school kids, the very first day of high school, freshman, sophomore, junior senior from the very first day of high school, we would begin to design, build, launch and grow our people to a degree we never have. And as we begin to do that, as a freshman, sophomore, junior, senior, graduated from high school into a new engagement of four years, now we’re working on our human being for eight years, in an intelligent, extraordinarily devoted way. Can you imagine the person we’d be facing for years after graduating from high school? You can’t, you can’t even begin to imagine who that person would be. If that were me, but only then would they be ready to begin. But I’ll guarantee you, significantly fewer of them will begin to be entrepreneurs. Thank God,
Josh Hadley 31:42
Michael. On that note, you know, one of the things as you begin to scale a business and as you go from one to 1000, to an enterprise, you’re going to have to work with people, right? And we talked about people development, in your decades of experience. Do you have any advice or tips when it comes to finding and hiring A-level talent for your business?
Michael E Gerber 32:05
Well, that’s obviously a system. Obviously, how you select the people, you hire, what you put them through before you ever bring them aboard them how you determine their make up before you ever bring them up board, create a method for that madness, and the people you bring aboard will be immensely different than the people you’re bringing aboard today. What is that military group, the elite military, Navy, Marines, US Navy SEALs,
Tom Foster 32:42
okay, there’s really that okay to
Michael E Gerber 32:45
think about US Navy SEALs for the moment, the seals, put people through doing hell before they ever get to become a beginner, a Navy SEAL. And yet 90% of those who become a Navy SEAL drop out before they become a navy to 90% drop out before they become a Navy SEAL. And the ones who be come beginners have been through an immense amount of development, before they’re ever qualified to go through the first stages. And then the Navy SEALs, put them to the limit handle, put that down to living Hill, challenging, challenging, challenging, challenging, challenging, challenging, challenging, challenging, you follow me? At your job? Hear me? How do you expect them to become stars? Challenging, challenging, challenging, challenging? So that’s the process. It’s so far beyond anything we do. So far beyond anything anybody expects new believes they need to do wants to do, because none of the people in your organization ever ever been through it? Challenging, challenging, challenging, challenging? How do you expect them to bring aboard people who will do it? They won’t? Why would they challenging, challenging, challenging, challenging, you understand the danger that creates for your people. So you’ve got to start this over here. You see what I’m putting my, you got to start this over here. There are two organizations within your organization, every single one of you. There is old Co, and there is new Co. You’re not here to grow old Co. You’re here to grow new Co, and new go N E W capital CO, old go. O L D, capital Co. Old CO is the past. New Co is the future. You’re here to design, build, launch and grow new Co. That’s your navy seals. The question is do you have the measure in you to design and build On launch and grow your Navy SEALs hear me that’s not an easy question to answer. Unfortunately, it is. Because we don’t really ever address it. They’ll give me a break or being a break. I don’t even want to create a navy seals in my business. But that’s what it takes. That’s what it takes. Work on no go while you go to work on old code, and you’re going to work on Oh, go to keep it from failing, but it’s not the future.
Josh Hadley 35:34
Yeah, Michael, I think it’s an important mindset shift that the listeners take of, you know, with your analogy of Navy Seals and your that’s the type of talent that you need to be developing for your business in order to grow it to that new CO. So I really appreciate that. And I hope our listeners go back and re listen to that. That’s a huge mindset shift that business owners need to have when they begin to hire talent.
Michael E Gerber 35:58
Yes, but hear me it’s a huge mindset and soul set, s o u l. Soul set for you. Don’t you dare tell that story until you set your soul to it. And please be careful about telling yourself that you’ve set your soul to it. Because if you hadn’t set your soul to it, it’s going to chew you up and spit you out, because you’re not going to match it. And the last thing I want to do is to put you into the grinder, the soul grinder that will put you in so you’ll stay one day Kerber, the day who told me that story was the day I went out of business?
Michelle Prince 36:41
My father question I’m curious. So we all know you, because we’ve read your books, books, and how has been a published author, when you first set out how has been a published author helped to build your authority, and really helped to establish you as the expert and follow on to that, would you recommend that other business owners follow that same path?
Michael E Gerber 37:00
My books have set the soul for our business? Without question, my books have set the soul for the creation of our business, for the development of our business, for the activation or clients, for our business, for the communication of our business, our books have set the soul for the soul of our business. So yes, without a doubt, and I didn’t write my book until 10 years into my business, the following? What was the further end of that question?
Michelle Prince 37:35
Would you recommend that other business owners because that’s really opened up so much opportunity for you? Would you recommend other business owners as they’ve evolved and grown into their business learning things that they share that also on a book and leverage that everybody
Michael E Gerber 37:47
has? There’s no question about it, that you look at those other guys who have, in quotes copied me, they’ve copied me by writing their version of my book. Now, please, again, that’s not my narcissism. Speaking. It’s just true. They’ve copied me by writing their version of my book. So I can only say that, yes, writing a book about that, I believe is a critical piece of the puzzle. Because the means to which you communicate to a larger and larger and larger audience, and then doing that through vodcasts, as we’re doing now, enables you to share that message, open that marketplace, read the book, stupid, read the book, stupid, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And of course, the book says, then what to do next, obviously. So yes, I would recommend that and have recommended that with this potion every 10 Most people write a bad book, most books fail, but most businesses fail. It’s much easier to fail writing a book than it is failing writing business, because you don’t see the business fail in time for you to get ready for the book sales. So obviously, the average book sells fewer than 250 copies. And that was a lot of work. Got it? Got it.
Michelle Prince 39:27
Yes. Thank you,
Jeremy Weisz 39:28
Michael. I just wanted to be the first one to thank you. Really appreciate your time and being here with all of us and sharing your message with anyone listening. I want to point everyone to all of your books, you know, E-Myth and E-Myth Beyond and also MichaelEGerberCompanies.com To check out everything that you have going on and just want to thank you for everything you’ve done for all of us over the years.
Michael E Gerber 39:51
My delight, thank you. And might I say you might be clearer in your description of your guest and what you expect of your guest as compared to what you expect of your audience. And that will help grandly.
Jeremy Weisz 40:10
Thanks, Michael. Thanks, everyone. Thank you so
Tom Foster 40:12
much, Michael. It’s such an honor to meet you.
Outro 40:15
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