Max Sinclair 3:42
It’s a great, well, it’s a great question. And I like the phrase that they use in the trenches, because I can tell you when I first started, I was in kind of like a sales role. Basically like my first three months, and I’ve moved quickly out of it because I hated it. Now I’m going to sell so obviously calamity. Like I’m glad I’ve done it, but I was in like cold calling. And I was outreaching people. This is in 2016 to like start a business like ecommerce business, like non ecommerce businesses to come and sell on Amazon. And they should probably unbelievable to the listeners right now. But I’d call people up and they wouldn’t have heard of Amazon, overnight how it makes me call it from Amazon. And they’re like, what’s Amazon? And so that was an interesting experience. Yeah, like, at that time, we used to say we’re in the trenches quite a lot, because it’s very, very tough. Doing it like that kind of role. And I’m sure anyone who’s done a sales role can those that kind of made me smile. What have I learned most about from, I’d say two things, like, first of all, I say culture and second of all, I’d say like understanding like Amazon and like thinking like, like the kind of logic that Amazon applies to stuff and you know, it’s helpful when, you know, as we look to build tools or services, like first of all on the culture like I think what When I was there, I was there from 2016 to 2022. So I actually like, I actually kind of witnessed like a, quite a shift in culture. During that time, when I joined, the company was about 350,000 People like more like, not not not small, but like, when I left, it was over 2 million. So like, growth was incredible during that time, right? And the culture was super, super, super strong. Whereas like, we had these leadership principles, maybe you’ve heard of them, ownership and deliver results. And trust, learn, be curious, were 12. And these weren’t just like, things that you put on the wall. And you never thought about, again, like this was it every single discussion you had with your manager, it was in every single meeting you had with the team, like every all hands, like Jeff, at the time would do. Basically, he did a global hands every quarter. And you’d say, these are leadership principles, earned trust, and like, this is how I’m thinking about earning trust with customers. Like at my level right now, like this is these are the things we’re doing maybe we’ve launched X, Y, Zed, and like that would completely filtered down throughout the whole company. And it made Amazon a very easy place to communicate internally, because everyone sang from the same hymn sheet. So you could talk to partner teams, you know, like in tech, or like, as I kind of, you know, actually, as you mentioned, I went over to Singapore. And I think part of the reason that they kind of, they had that internal enablement of like taking people like it’s called the global talent program, they literally take people from like established marketplaces and then out to a new one to help launch. And like, the main thing, our job was really was like the culture because you could be coming in there, and they’d have hired a bunch of people who aren’t Amazonian, who never really, you know, who basically, you know, they’re local, so they understand, which is super important, they understand the customer. And then, you know, the local traditions, they speak the language, like, I don’t speak any Chinese, like, you know, but, you know, they didn’t understand how Amazon works. And our job was kind of like, a big part of it. Obviously, we had like day to day role, but it was to kind of, you know, be a sponge of that culture so people could see how to work. So, you know, that’s something that we’ve taken into our own company, I’d say, I’d say, the second thing is how Amazon thinks, this is super important when like, we’re building tools, like, you know, I know pretty well how AI works. I know, you know, I have mentors in that team, I know where they’re going with it. Like, I’m still in contact with some people I used to work with there. And I like I, I understand, like, they like their goals and six years working there. And like, what that means now, and therefore, like, what we should do and what we shouldn’t do and our tools. And I can give you one concrete example of that through, you know, the biggest example is like, everyone knows that ChatGPT’s around, everyone knows that you can go on Helium 10. And you can get a bunch of keywords. Every other like AI, we have like an AI listing copy tool. And the one difference between Mitel any content and everyone else’s Tool, and I’m not gonna name them. Specifically, if everyone else has focused on keyword stuffing, take this keyword stuffing them as much as you can use AI, it’s not hard to get an Amazon API, chalky tea bag together, there’s your listing, that’s not at all how Amazon thinks, right? Amazon cares about the quality of the listings, like they care about, you know, for giving a great customer experience. They know that sellers are looking at little tips and tricks and whatever else to try and get ahead. And the algorithms are extremely complex, and they’re not just looking at keywords they’re looking at, you know, does a customer come onto your listing, and then move off to another listing in the similar category? Because if it does that, then clearly your listing isn’t isn’t answering the question they’re looking for, which is going to, you know, impact you. And they’re, you know, they’re looking at how long people stay on the listing. And obviously, conversion, obviously, but like, there’s multiple things they’re looking at, which means that there’s no short like, there’s no kind of code in this, right? There’s no like, let’s just stipulate a keyword, and then we’re going to have an amazing, you know, and then something’s going to sell. And I guarantee like, if any of your bikes definitely by the time this comes out next year, but like, even at this point, like anyone who’s actually used one of these tools, has your ranking gone up as your conversion gone up? No. I almost guarantee no, because they’re super aware of like, they’re super aware that this is happening, and that anyway, like, you don’t even need to be using a tool, you could just do it yourself and catch up and keywords. So like, That’s one small example of like, how it brains how we think about what we’re building here.
Josh Hadley 9:38
Interesting. No, I love that. I think that, you know, to our listeners, you’re hearing from somebody that understands intimately the A9 algorithm that helps rank and categorize products on Amazon. So Max is not just shooting from the hip of thinking, you know, this is the way I think Things work. Max knows exactly what is working. Now he’s not privileged enough to be able to save.
Max Sinclair 10:05
I don’t like it’s an algorithm, they have different weights, they change the weights constantly. And I haven’t been in the business for a year. So I like I’m not saying that I know the 11th. But I know the core things have come in. And I’ve set up a marketplace on the back end, right. Like I’ve set up a browser literally launched later, Singapore. So I understand like, how that interacts with a nine and yet, so I haven’t I have like a basic foundation, if that makes you have
Josh Hadley 10:31
the frame. And I think that’s the most important thing. So Max, knowing that you have this background of A9, what would be your actionable takeaway for the sellers that are listening that are seven-figure sellers, they want to scale to eight figures and beyond? Yeah, what would be your number one, like, advice or recommendation for them moving forward?
Max Sinclair 10:54
I mean, I’m not like, I think the best thing you can do on like, if we’re talking about a listing is make a listing that your customers actually want, right? Make something that reads naturally in a human way, keywords, obviously important, and I’m not saying you know, don’t put keywords in there, and you should definitely have, like, you know, your most important keywords in the title. But also, I think that what we’ve tried to build, and what we have built is like, the psychological elements of like, how the coffee should work in the text, for example. So like, introducing scarcity, like, by now before, you know, Christmas stockwork runs out for something that no we’re not in, we’re not in Christmas anymore, maybe we’re by Prime Day for like, by now before prime, they’ve got someone out, introducing, like, a neighbor, like enabling the customer to visualize using your product. Not not just like, you know, like, an A playing game or do it like if you’re sending a card game, like playing a game with your family, or, you know, or, you know, hiking up a mountain, like, there’s certain and then making that like cohesive across the listing with their lifestyle images with the infographic. I think that and that’s, you know, that’s, that’s how I would, how I think about it, and do I think AI can do this definitely. Right. But I think you have to have smart AI, I don’t think you can just like use something, which is a plugin to ChatGPT and create that. So, you know, I think you would be able to get there, like, you know, you can get there for free with prompting and rewriting yourself?
Josh Hadley 12:29
For sure. Yeah. No, make makes a lot of sense. So focusing on, you know, what Amazon cares about is the customer experience?
Max Sinclair 12:37
Exactly. Like, it’s not complicated. Yeah, focus on that. And that, I think you shouldn’t second guess how complex and intelligent these algorithms are, they are, it’s not one algorithm, there’s multiple, and they have different weights, and they change the weights based on all of these metrics, or they’re, you know, they’re looking at. So, you’re not going to be able to, like, I don’t think you’re going to be able to cheat the system, like, you’re gonna have to have a great product first and foremostly. Right, they’re gonna realize that and then beyond that, you can definitely, you know, have a great product listing, and that reads like a human and like, you know, triggers all these things, and has the right keywords, and, you know, everything else.
Josh Hadley 13:18
You know, makes a lot of sense. It goes back to a very basic foundation of business 101, which is create a really good product that’s unique. That’s differentiated, and then create listing images and product copy that sells it that helps people understand how it’s going to solve their pain points. And obviously e-comm tent does a lot of that. But Max, you are so heavily invested in AI, you’ve been studying AI you’ve been looking at, you know, where the puck is moving, and how AI is literally going to revolutionize e-commerce as a whole. We also know that Amazon has Project Nile, right, which is like how did they incorporate AI into the customer experience when they’re searching for products? So, next, I’m curious, I want to ask you this question. How do you feel like AI is going to change e-commerce in the next three to five years?
Max Sinclair 14:14
Well, in the next three to five years, I think the immediate one which may like this may be historical by the time this is coming out right. But I think the major one is there will have to be a copilot, like as you say project now they will have to be a copilot on Amazon, where you kind of have this kind of catch up to or being experienced, you type in, you know, a product Amazon has, like if you think about the advantages they have is all the data on their customers, right? So rather than surfing something when I say like, I’m looking for a new T-shirt, they know that I’m a size medium because I only buy medium, they know that I always buy the specific colors. They know I’m you know where I’m based and like what the maybe what the trends are In this area, so they have they, they have a huge advantage in, in doing this and you’re already seeing like, like, startup A copy is like someone they called like ali.ai. Basically, it’s like shopping but text to, you know, like a chatty petite thing where you text them like I’m looking for T-shirts. And I would like, give you that experiment. Now, the killer of this is obviously PPC, right? Like when you’re doing this yourself thing, three or four, or five, I don’t know, like a small number of highly targeted, highly, highly relevant products. And you’re kind of getting rid of like this, like search and scroll. But I think it’s like, similar to how Google you know how this is happening at Google like, I think Amazon, I like my impression of Andy Jassy is like, he’s absolutely the right man to do this. Like, he’s, he’s running. He’s running AWS for 20 years, or however long it’s been right. Like, this is his like bread and butter. Maybe they even knew like they were fourth. And like, I don’t know, because there was like, 2019 when he came, so they probably did like, didn’t didn’t know, but it’s certainly good luck, right? Or maybe they didn’t know, maybe they’re cleverer than I am. Right. But maybe they kind of, you know, he’s the right man to take Amazon through this transition. I think, knowing all the problems that Amazon faces in terms of like, you know, they’ve got too much square footage, and they’re bringing it back from COVID. And like, they’ve done a bunch of redundancies, and like, you know, it’s an absolutely exciting direction that you can imagine, like, they’re very passionate and excited about. So I think they’re highly, highly motivated to go in this direction. And I’m sure they will, and obviously predict now, like, it’s not, it’s not really a secret anymore, like they are. And they’ve hired these people, like, you know, okay, like they’ve hired, I think, almost like six months ago now, like people with a job description, which literally said, like, reinvent that. So it’s definitely coming. And I think it’ll be coming soon. And I would imagine, at first, it will be a co pilot, which is kind of like, you know, like, on the bid, if you’ve used Bing Chrome, where you can use main search, or you can use this like aI powered service, I think, like, my guess is like different customers will want different things and like it will evolve. But certainly, the pullback is PPC and obviously Amazon now makes more money for its advertising business and its prime membership is an enormous amount of things like $40 billion, like of revenue for advertising. And that’s going to have to be you know, they’re going to have to get it in some ways, which obviously changes the game for sellers, and how they think about, you know, how they think about their businesses. But again, if you think about what Amazon is trying to do, it’s, you know, it’s like, it’s objective, like statement objectives is to make the world’s most the Earth’s most customer centric company. That’s the mission of Amazon, right? So therefore, like, like, if having a massive advertising business, the most customer centric company now, right? If not, so I think they’ll be, they’ll be very happy to kind of take these risks, and you’ve got new leadership, and I think you’ll be very motivated to like, oversee this trip. And so I think it’s definitely coming. And I think the whole PPC game is going to change. I think the biggest risk of Amazon faces is kind of what and this is on the more the five year perspective to your question is what happens with the likes of inflection AI, and like, you know, which is a startup Reid Hoffman, founder of LinkedIn, and PayPal, and being invested in open AI, has, has, you know, founded, co founded, and like this, these kind of like AGI and these, these, you know, the whole discussion around like, actual, like, you know, what we have now, which is generative, I have no inherent intelligence to it, and we can get into that discussion, but like, this intelligence is coming, and everyone’s very worried about it, right. Like, there’s been this summit in the UK with Rishi Sunak, the Prime Minister and Elon Musk, like this stuff is coming in, it’s not not far away. So how that changes the game for Amazon, because in that world, if you could, you could see like, your personal AI assistant, it knows you even more intimately than than an Amazon does. Maybe, because you’re talking to it, maybe because it’s managing your calendar, and it’s managing your, you know, it’s just managing a lot more stuff. For us, it has a lot more better data. And you don’t even go to an app, you go to this personal assistant AI and you say, hey, like, my lights are broken. And it knows what light bulb you have, because it’s plugged into your, you know, your smart home or like, you know, something like this. So I think that’s a really, that’s the biggest risk that they have, which is kind of like this new platform, which is going to be like, you know, a new the new web, the new mobile like hack, is that is there space for like, a very well funded startup like inflection AI to come in and have like something which is so much more convenient that like, actually, people only people don’t go to Amazon anymore? Because they just need like this AI agent to do it for them.
Josh Hadley 19:40
Yeah, that’s a very interesting concept. And I think that, you know, as time goes on, you know, we’ll continue to see e-commerce continue to evolve. And, I mean, certainly we’ve seen Amazon evolve over the last decade, as well, right. So, most importantly, it’s just, you know, staying in tune with what’s going on and start making adjustments to your business. So, Max, my question would be this, then what would be your advice and recommendations to an Amazon seller if knowing that these changes that are going to occur with AI, even though we don’t know exactly the entire impact of the AI implementation? What would be your advice for them today?
Max Sinclair 20:22
So my advice today would be pretty simple. Like, I think it’s just that sellers have got, you know, online sellers who have got very used to like using the web and like managing everything from their laptop, and like maybe working remotely, and kind of, you know, managing people across multiple times, though, you know, they got very used to this, this is another revolution coming, this arguably is bigger, and therefore, they need to get used to it. And like, like, I’m so bullish on this, I think it’s got like generative AI, less than AGI which I think is quite scary, but like, on the journey, we are where we are right now, I think there’s so much opportunity for gaming team, right, like just scaling the impact of one or two people teams to do like 10 extra work they could do a year ago, and which is why like, I’m super confident in what we’re doing, you know, like, you know, in talking face like 40 or 60% of the code, I can’t remember what it is, like aI written now. Like, the base code is written by AI or the boys that template stuff, and then you like right on top of it. So you can really augment. I don’t know what percentage you’re like, Amazon listings and whatnot, or by AI, but I guess, like, I would not be, you know, when we started this business with like, a year ago, like, we kind of thought it could be like, you know, it’s gone a lot quicker than I assumed. But like, I wouldn’t be surprised if like, 80% of like, you know, listings and images are generated by AI on Amazon and elsewhere soon. So I think getting into it, I know sounds like cliche, but like getting into it, there’s multiple ways of of delivering a great customer experience and augmenting your team, whether that be in customer service, and having like, you know, really tailored like customer service and helpful customer service on you know, that you’re doing which is like augmented by AI, what we do, which is like the content, the product listings, the images, the infographic, I like, I think they say like, I think forecasting as well, like how you’re forecasting your inventory, because generative AI will be better at predicting like what you’re going to need. And when I think there’s like just getting just getting into it getting used to getting used to it understanding like the basic concepts of what it is like, it is super important to not view this as like some kind of magical thing. It’s not magical. These are massive prediction engines. And, and like understanding exactly like how it works just on like a basic fundamental level, and then starting to pilot it make you more adept, like when these changes come with Amazon and Shopify and everywhere else, which it, which is definitely coming.
Josh Hadley 22:56
Yeah, makes a lot of sense too. So to just kind of reiterate what you talked about, really, you don’t know the full spectrum of how AI is going to impact Amazon. But what you can start doing today is start implementing AI into your own business, how are you able to scale your own team, start getting involved in AI, don’t you know, pull the covers over your head and think that it’s going to go away, start slowly adopting it in your own business, because as time evolves, you’ll be able to see how that will kind of, you know, propel you to the next version of whatever Amazon looks like down the road. So Max offline, we also talked about how, you know, AI is breaking down a lot of barriers to entry, especially for overseas sellers, and it’s going to make the marketplace even more competitive than it already is today. So, Max, how does a US-based seller compete with people that are overseas competitors?
Max Sinclair 23:57
Yeah. Like, this is definitely a massive fan, this is going to happen and like once upon a time, and I won’t, won’t quote the numbers, but once upon a time, when I was working in like Amazon UK court, like I was reporting on non domestic sellers and like, you know, each week we would like so each month we have like what was called a NBR monthly business review. And like this would go to like the like the head of Amazon, UK and like I was like adding in my little paragraph about like how non non domestic you know, selling them UK business and going and it was like, they were they were really getting and I think whilst in the past like it was very easy to identify what the non domestic seller you know, which which ASINs was theirs right because they had super bad they obviously photoshopped product imagery. The attacks on a leg was badly spelled it didn’t make sense. And it’s very obvious that now this is completely changing and like the highest like if you look at a map of like the highest concentration for like the word ChatGPT and not concentration not like mass volume is in China, right? Like these guys. I think it’s actually illegal in China. But at the same time, I think a lot of people there, I’m not Chinese, but I think there’s a lot of VPN usage to kind of get around these things. And I think, whatever, like, it’s definitely don’t quote me on any of this. But it’s like, it’s a, you know, it’s definitely being masked, used, right? Or like, maybe not chatty for tea, but like, at all, you know, one of these tools. So I think, I think the kind of one mote that they had, the domestic sellers had is kind of now evaporated of like hype, like, you know, you call this kind of high quality perception, I think, what the advantage that the domestic sellers have over the the non domestic still remains like proximity to the customer, right? Fundamentally, uh, you know, I think they know the customer, hopefully they have a community, I think that’s very important when they can talk to the customers. And they like, this is a huge, huge, huge advantage, right? And this kind of this process, and it’s something where, like, I’m personally very focused on like, I try and talk to one customer a day, I’ll be content, understanding, like, what did they use? What like, what did they see as a substitute for us, which is sometimes like, really interesting, but they’re not like a direct competitor, but it’s like a completely different substitution that you would never imagine people like, compared to, like, understanding and listen, maybe more, in the more, you know, more relevant for someone like me, but it’s definitely relevant in it also, in it kind of product based businesses like, what, what did they do with your product that then they like, not, not a feature that they like to have, which is kind of nice to know. But it’s not super useful? What’s really useful is like, what did they try and sell beyond what you’d like in your space, and you couldn’t do that like, for like, for example, like we like, again, this isn’t that thing. But like, on our tour, we saw a lot of people generating images, and then they’re trying to add extra elements to the images through Photoshop and whatever else. And it’s like that action of like, people actually care enough to like, do it, and then go and find another solution, like on top of our existing product window, okay, we’re just going to build like a simple edit thing where you can, like circle past the image and regenerate it. So and that comes from just like discussing with your customers what, you know, or customer profiles, if you know, if you don’t know your customers members, and talking to them frequently, understanding like, whatever pain points they have, and like have actively tried to solve like, maybe like, this is a stupid example making off the top of my head. But like, if you’re selling like a coffee mug, and they don’t think it’s warm enough, do they keep on microwaving it like before they go out or whatever, like you can see, okay, like they keep needs to go up because they’re like, actively tried to do that, like action. So I think that’s a key advantage, you don’t have that if you’re on domestic super, super hard to talk to the customers. And that’s something that I would encourage people to really, really lean into.
Josh Hadley 27:55
Yeah, now it makes a lot of sense. So to digest, all of that really is building a community for your brand, and then being closer to the customer. And I would argue that that will still remain a very big competitive advantage. And you need to double down on that even further as the barriers to entry of you know, listing copy and images gets broken down. But you can still design and create products that better meet the needs of the US or the UK market, wherever it is that you’re selling into. If you know those customers better, and —
Max Sinclair 28:32
It’s a fundamental advantage that will never say Right, like, obviously, they have the advantage on price. But like if you know your customer like and this is why I think like, you know, startups like us can exist where there’s like, much bigger, like cars and sixes or helium 10s. Like, I’m not, I’m not saying they’re not talking to their customers, but like, we have a specific use case, we’re talking to people every day. And we’re understanding like, we have a clearer understanding. And we’re like dedicating our limited resources to that specific thing. And it’s the same you could do with an inner product business. And it’s a huge advantage compared to the Chinese subjects. So yeah, I definitely encourage people to lean into it.
Josh Hadley 29:09
I love that. I love that. Max, you also talked about you know, one of the recommendations that you’ve had in the past has been for people to maybe consider start diversifying off of Amazon to one extent or another. Give me your thoughts: why would you encourage people to diversify even though Amazon continues to theoretically take over the world of e-commerce? What’s the importance of that and why?
Max Sinclair 29:37
Yeah, well, I can I can repeat the story while I was saying forehand, which is like I as I mentioned, I used to be an account manager first and probably about nine months into my role at Amazon and we used to as account manager to be able to see the individuals in seller support who were working on our on our tickets to like you can literally like things we have this cool thing and like so you can literally look them assign them just messaged them on Slack, like the internal slack we have, and just be like, hey, like, blah, blah, blah, that was removed, maybe six months into into 2016. So like account managers can no longer like directly influence the Support Manager, the support people like in in Bangladesh or Hyderabad wherever they are. And I mean, like you’d say, like why, like, you know, why are they doing that it’s very obvious, like, if you care about the best customer service, like, you know, super customer specific, you actually don’t want internal people kind of like tricking the system and helping out and sellers who may or may not have done any wrongdoing, like, you know, obviously, I’m very biased for myself, it’s my revenue revenue is tied to my goals, I need to hit my goals, I’m going to do what I can to get them unblocked, ASAP. So they, you know, they did it for that reason why they password resets, they want to, they want to have the best like end customer experience, and sell it comes back. They do. So, like an eyesore, like color store, as I was saying, like, you know, I remember one lady who kind of came down from Leeds, which is about four, four hours away from from our offices, came all the way down to the office kind of unannounced to try and meet with me, because she very stressed about having to fire, like warehouse workers. And I completely empathize with the tough situation, but maybe it’s kind of limited stuff that I can do. And there’s a lot of stuff that she could do in this new environment department, like submit it and wait to see what happens. So I think, you know, diversification is super important. You never want to be wholly dependent on something. And like, again, I’m not going to plug my content, but there are AI tools, likey content, but there’s also a lot of them, which makes this diversification a whole lot easier now. And, you know, there’s many, many up and coming marketplaces, everyone is talking about Walmart, you know, the timestamp this when November 23. Like everyone talk about Walmart, everyone’s saying it’s like five years behind where Amazon is now. And like you want to get on there. But there’s others, right, like, you know, and niche ones. So like it when I talk to our customers, like, we have a customer who does like, like organic flour, and see is selling on there, I think it’s called. And she’s loving, it’s a huge channel for her because that’s a good niche. And we have, you know, customers in the furniture area. And there’s, you know, obviously they sell a wafer and they sell on I think it’s called Bed Bath and Beyond or something like this, and it’s a decent, you know, it’s a decent additional revenue. So, and if you kind of eat if you’re making a bet, which I think is a good bet, which is like this whole ecommerce shopping is going to change. And there could be agents in the future, which like, it’s not like science fiction, like people are actively working on this. And some of like the best entrepreneurs, best funded entrepreneurs in the world are like working on this, like, it’s a fair bet to say, hey, all my products as much places as possible. So like they can be picked up by the agents and bought like, imagine if like, there’s some massive kind of thing between Amazon and like, these, these new companies like they used to be of Amazon and Apple, where they’re like, we’re not going to touch like Amazon and Apple had like this huge thing where they wouldn’t listen to each other for like years. And eventually, now they do but like for ages, like you couldn’t buy at one Amazon. Like suddenly this could happen in the future. And then like you’re missing out on, you know, everyone using another channel or like a new kind of shopping mode. So I would definitely say diversification is definitely a good strategy. Yeah.
Josh Hadley 33:29
Yeah. I love that. So you recommended, you know, getting on Walmart Faire, getting, too, right. Yeah. Do what’s best for your brand, right. But those are just a few of the places that you could go, you could go to eBay, your own DTC website, Shopify, right, TikTok Shop, the list goes on and on. But most important thing I think to take away from that is that you should always be testing, right. And just because something is all been working well for you, sometimes it’s good to double down on that. And arguably, that’s where you should go first. But then secondly, you also need to be kind of skating where the puck is going to be going. And you’ve got to at least put your fishing pole in the water in some of these other places, just to see if you could start getting some traction there. Because it does, it allows you to sleep better at night. It allows you to be more bulletproof and less dependent on Amazon that honestly, they can just make some honest mistakes on your account. And you can just be locked up for a couple months for no good reason. And it was just an innocent error. Yeah, happens.
Max Sinclair 34:36
And Ed Rosenberg does a great job of like highlighting this and it happens all the time. And it’s really like, it’s very sad, like people, you know, people are locked out. And there’s nothing you can do.
Josh Hadley 34:49
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Max, what else is on your mind in how AI is going to revolutionize e-commerce and what recommendations or advice would you give to anybody, whether it’s AI or not for scaling from seven to eight figures and beyond?
Max Sinclair 35:09
What else is on my mind? So, you know, we’re in Q4, but I’m not going to talk about Q4, because not coming out of Q4. We talked about, like, I think a bit, the big one, which we talked about was kind of like how search is going to change. I think that’s a fundamental. What else we, we talked about kind of diversification. I think that’s kind of like an extremely important, extremely important thing, too. And let me say on this, like, I talked to, you know, when I when I’m selling, like when I’m selling, which obviously I do, I talked to many of the aggregators. So, like this week, I’m probably talking to about five of the APA to senior people in the businesses. And it’s clear that these guys all have the strategy of expanding into new marketplaces. Like, it’s something I’m hearing again, and again, and again. And again, this is this is kind of like why, as we talked about with talking to your customer, like, it’s super important to be listening, and, and not just like, I don’t go to a sales call, and just like, sell anything, I always like to take 20 minutes to listen. And when it says the end. And it’s a big concern of all these guys. And like they know what, you know, whatever you say good or bad about the idea to them. They’re having a really rough time. But like there’s some smart people in these businesses and like, for sure, it’s a massive strategic thing. They’re all thinking about this, they’re all thinking about new channels. So it is definitely worth it. So we talked about diversification, obviously, this non domestic kind of challenge and like, talk to your customers. Yeah, I say there’s my top three, I think we’ve covered — we’ve covered them in some detail. I love the question.
Josh Hadley 36:48
I think that’s it, would you have any other advice for sellers that want to scale from seven to eight figures and more?
Max Sinclair 36:55
I think, like, fundamentally, I’m not an expert in this tool. But I think fundamentally, you have to have a great product. So it’s not, it’s not something that like I particularly in to have any insights into being honest. But like you can’t really have, it doesn’t make sense to have a great product listing, which is what I really help with, without having a great product. And I’m like, I’m also like, I also don’t really have much advice on the pay channels, such as, like, when I was an account manager at Amazon, like I saw people, like literally pouring money down the drain on ads and stuff. And like, it’s really, I’m sure that there’s great people out there who know a lot more about this than me. I like it really put me off. We’ve not done any paid hourly content. I’ve not done no like, like any of these like Google Ads, anything. So I don’t know, like much about that. I, I’m very, like, I like part of it is because I’ve seen how it’s tough. And also because I believe this stuff is going to be changing, like in the short term of like, you know, like on Bing now, like, I get customers to come to me and say, Oh, we found you through chat to up to you know, like, they put in the questions ChatGPT and it gave them us, which is crazy, right? Like, and like, you can’t do paid advertising on ChatGPT. Right? Like, if I’ve no idea how they like, it’s really cool. But I think this, like the world is, is really changing. So like if you’re just focusing on having a great product, the customers love and, and then like, yeah, you’re like you’re focusing on honest and like, accurate, like marketing of that on the product listing, you know, beautiful images, like reviewing emotion and like visually super impressive and very clear what the benefits are from the infographics. And, and the and the copy kind of generate, at least like a sense of like, emotion, but at the same time, that sense of like scarcity and urgency and acting now, which is what we were like, What, again, what would like what we focus on, then then you know, then you’re gonna do well. And that’s kind of, I think, just making sure those are like, you’ve got to have those basics. Right, and they can take you very far.
Josh Hadley 39:00
Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Max, this has been amazing. And as we start to wrap things up, I love to leave our guests with three actionable takeaways from each episode. So here are the three takeaways that I noted you let me know if you think I’m missing something. So action item number one is going to be piggybacking off of what you just talked about, which is having a really good product and it’s not just having a good product in general. But here’s the main point. AI is revolutionizing e-commerce. It’s making it easier for overseas sellers to be able to tap into markets and the barriers to entry are getting lower and lower. So what is the one thing that will continue to be a barrier to entry, it’s understanding your customer and the customer avatar that your product is created for. And the closer you are to that customer the more engaged you are with that customer. You can create products that better serve their needs than what any, you know, overseas seller that can only compete on price can dream up. And so I would double down on creating amazing processes to innovate products to better meet the needs of your customers.
Max Sinclair 40:23
So don’t pin, but I think it’s very external in the product world. It like understanding like this, like the place substitute that people have, that your customers have already purchased. So if you see it, like if you’re selling a laptop case, and you see someone who bought a laptop case, it’s a great discussion. Like, it’s a fantastic discussion to have, like, when did you buy it? What like, what meant? Like what literally like, you start with like, When did you buy it? So you kind of like you get them in the frame of mind or thinking about that process? Like, what week? Was it? What, how many months ago? Like how was it on Amazon was an eBay? Like, what lazy to buy it? Like how long have you been thinking about beforehand, like, like, you just just have that discussion? And like, you know, it did, and that that is super helpful. And we do that all the time. Like I talked, I talked to businesses who like hire, you know, like, agencies, or they hire people with fiber, and like, obviously, different AI sorts, but just to understand, like, what were they trying to solve when they made that decision? And how can you know, and like just having that discussion around that decision? What was driving them? What were they anxious about? What was like pulling them towards it? What was prison way from it. And those discussions are just great for, like, you know, for understanding product development. And you could, you know, depending on what consumer you’re like, you can walk through, like, if you’re selling bike stuff, you can go to a bike, get together with people cycling, or like if you’re doing laptops go to a coffee shop, and you can just have these discussions and you find like that’s an advantage that you have, like, the non domestic sellers can’t just do that. Right? They can’t just walk up and have that basis questions. So it’s a cute — yeah, that’s a cute thing that I think has been super helpful for us. And I would encourage other businesses to do.
Josh Hadley 42:04
Awesome. Love that. Great advice and recommendations. Action Item number two, coincides with what you just talked about, of understanding the customer. But this is building a community for your customers, right? Everybody’s talked about, you know, get product inserts, build your email list, but what are you actually doing with that email list? How are you interacting and engaging with that community. And that’s something that, you know, I’ve taken away that, like, we’re gonna double down on this whole community, because if you can have 1000 raving fans, you know, you could really move into any new channels, and they’ll continue to follow you wherever you go. And hence, doubling down on community would be action item number two, if you’re not doing that, start sending out emails, text messages, create a Facebook group, so that you’re interacting with that community on a regular basis, and you stay top of mind to your customers.
Max Sinclair 43:03
One of my biggest mistakes I think I’ve made doing is I have a WhatsApp group for my customers. And it’s been great to be useful, and actually put it on my website. Now anyone can join it, which was a massive mistake, because we get like lots of random people, that WhatsApp community is a lot bigger now. There’s some spamming messages every now and again. And like the chat, which used to be like quite a life has died. So like, it was way better when I had like a small WhatsApp of like 35 people who I all knew were customers. And I met in person. And I had like, added them to this WhatsApp. And then when we were discussing product features, or whatever, I would always just message people and like, put it in a group and I hate or to try this. And it was so useful. I think it’s quality, not quantity of that as well. Like, I really wish I hadn’t put this group on my website, because now. Yeah, now it’s less good. But anyone listening to this, please join it because I imagine you’re the kind of person that I want on that.
Josh Hadley 43:58
I love that great example in a great case study. All right. So our final and third action item is that you need to start adopting AI no matter what it is right? Whether it is correct using AI to create the copy the bullet points for your listing or main images for your listing. Or if it’s using Dali, or mid journey to come up with differentiated product ideas in general, and maybe serving those ideas to your community getting their feedback on it. We don’t know exactly what’s going to change with AI. We talked about a lot of predictions that we have with AI. But long story short, it’s going to evolve. And so it’s super important for you to just not pull the covers over your head and ignore it. But to slowly start adopting it, utilizing it with your team members. Understanding how you might be able to scale the business with fewer staff because of your implementation of AI and so not turning a blind and die to it continuing to follow the trends, following TikTok channels or YouTube channels that talk about new AI tools. And just moving into it and utilizing it in your business will then allow you to see, you know how you can make adjustments to better meet the needs of the customer and continue to pivot, no matter what the marketplaces do with AI. So Max, as we wrap things up, I love to ask each guest the following three questions. So number one is what’s been the most influential book that you’ve read? And why?
Max Sinclair 45:33
It’s a very easy answer. It’s How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. I remember reading this, it’s got a strange title. And I do have friends, I promise you, it’s, there’s no way around it. But I remember reading this about two years into my Amazon career. And it completely changed how I interacted with people around me and like, my progression from that point was so much quicker. And like, there was no change in like, how hard I worked, or how math I was, it was literally just like, intuitively, you know, how to deal with people. And so yeah, super recommend.
Josh Hadley 46:09
Awesome, that is a solid recommendation for sure. Now, question number two, what’s a new productivity tool or software tool that you’ve recently discovered that you think is going to be a game changer?
Max Sinclair 46:20
I am going to do a favor to one of my friends obviously, may vary in the startup part of moment company in the bay on an accelerator, but one of my friends has launched something called ad, right. It’s a really cool tool for some of the stuff we discussed. It’s a social listening tool. And basically, you get a Slack notification. Whenever on people mention your, like, the topic you’re interested about on Reddit, and I think they’re expanding to other stuff. But fundamentally, the MVP is on Reddit. And it’s flexible, and it’s brilliant. So basically, whenever anyone can mention like AI and e-commerce, or something like this, I’m notified immediately, and I can jump into the conversation. And I do, and like, wherever I’m one day, like, it just pops off my phone. And it’s a great way to talk to customers. And like, you know, do all the stuff we talked about.
Josh Hadley 47:13
That’s amazing. What’s the name of the tool? Advice? Advent?
Max Sinclair 47:17
I believe Advite.Ai. Yeah. Yeah, the founders are really good, really determined they’re gonna like this is gonna be massive, I think. So I have full faith. And
Josh Hadley 47:35
I love that I love new tools, new AI tools like this. This is fantastic. All right. Last question here, Max, who is somebody that you admire or respect the most in the e-commerce space that other people should be following? And why?
Max Sinclair 47:49
I mentioned Ed. I’m very grateful for Ed, I think he does a great job for kind of all this seller suppression stuff. I think he’s amazing. I think the other person I call up is Jon Derkits, maybe you’ve heard him on the podcast, he’s, he’s ex Amazonian he, like for a number of years as well. And he’s a big seller as well. And he’s also been a good mentor to me and bounce ideas off over the course of, you know, this. I’m grateful for him and his newsletters. I think it’s one of the best, because it is not one of that, like, I started to lose these new letters now, because I just want to understand what customers are thinking, and I see some of this stuff. And I’m like, this is complete garbage. And like, you know, it’s kind of just like a he’s one of these Amazon theorists who’s actually been there done it from both sides. So I think he’s a good one.
Josh Hadley 48:37
Yeah, those are both some solid recommendations. So we do have Jon Derkits on the pipeline for one of our podcasts, so he will be coming up. Me. Okay, so yes, stay tuned for his episode. Well, Max, this has been an exciting episode. If people want to learn more about your software, your tool that you’re doing or follow you. Where can people learn more?
Max Sinclair 49:04
I’m probably most active on LinkedIn as cringey as that sounds. Max Sinclair on LinkedIn. If you want to email me, I’m at Max@ecomtent.ai. E-content and e-commerce content kind of merged together so that Ecomtent.ai. Maybe there’ll be a link in the notes somewhere, I don’t know.
Josh Hadley 49:23
Yes, there will be.
Max Sinclair 49:26
Okay, so you can find me there.
Josh Hadley 49:28
Awesome. Well, Max, thanks so much for giving us your time today and for sharing all these great strategies and helping us gain some predictions of where things are going with AI and how that we can stay ahead of everything. So thanks again for your time. Thank you.
Outro 49:46
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